swan40 Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 I have bought a nice 12bore sidelock with Damascus barrels by this maker and cannot find out much about him. Done the usual internet search but information is limited to where and when and not much else. Can anyone help ? Also I am trying to put together a vintage case for it and would like a makers label or any idea of what one looks like to try and replicate, but also no luck with finding one. Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powler Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 I searched "W. Wallas of Wigton and Carlisle" and found the below on http://www.carlisleshistory.co.uk/page47.htm WALLAS Family of gunmakers first noted in Wigton in 1811; Irwin Wallas traded in Wigton and Carlisle,1857 to 1873, as did William Wallas, who by 1880 had a Saturday stall in Carlisle Market Place and then a shop in Blackfriars Street circa 1906-1914, and Danial Wallas who had a shop in Carlisle circa 1941 to 1931. Might help your search a bit. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan123shooting Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 According to British Gun Makers. William Wallace senior was based at Ludgate Lane Wigtown 1827 then moved to King Street 1835 the business was taken over by Irwin Wallace the son from 1883 - 1905 then his son Daniel from 1909-1936 the other branch opened in 50 Blackfriars Street Carlisle 1913 as for a label you may have an impossible task best of luck with you quest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) Thanks all for your help -this one is W. Wallas not Wallace. I also found that info but wondered is it different people or not as they seem to overlap in places Happily I have just been speaking to the gentleman who has written a book on just this subject ( and other gunsmiths of the area) so all my questions should soon be answered I hope. There also are some pictures of trade labels in the book so what a result talk about coincidence. Edited December 29, 2019 by swan40 update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 Wallas Thomas Wigton 1827/1825 Wallas William Wigton 127/1855 Wallas Irwin 1854/1869 Wallas William Kemp St Wigton 1894 , which would be the period of your gun . Wallas Henry 1901 Wallas Daniel 1934. I suspect that some records which seem to have the same first names and dates but a different spelling of the surname are simple mistakes as it would be odd that two gunmakers of so similar names worked in the same town at the same times . Not uncommon as research into family history has shown . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) I too have a Wallas (D.H. Wallas - Wigton), a 30" barrelled boxlock 12. Many years ago I took the wood off of the fore end iron work, to find a Westley Richards stamp, so I guess my gun was made in the white or as a complete gun by WR and bought by Wallas. On 29/12/2019 at 09:42, swan40 said: Thanks all for your help -this one is W. Wallas not Wallace. I also found that info but wondered is it different people or not as they seem to overlap in places Happily I have just been speaking to the gentleman who has written a book on just this subject ( and other gunsmiths of the area) so all my questions should soon be answered I hope. There also are some pictures of trade labels in the book so what a result talk about coincidence. Do you have the details of the book, please? Edited December 30, 2019 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Have a look through this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 For labels try; https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/TRADE_LABELS.html https://www.henrykrank.com/antiques/antique-restoration/reproduction-gun-trade-labels.html however I don't see Wallas listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted December 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 The book is advertised on this site in other sales - Gunmakers of Cumberland & Westmoreland Have ordered one looking forward to getting it, the author was a great help in helping me get the info I wanted. As regards the case label I could not find one either but there should be some in the book which I will try and replicate as best I can as long as it looks similar it will be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 4 hours ago, swan40 said: The book is advertised on this site in other sales - Gunmakers of Cumberland & Westmoreland Have ordered one looking forward to getting it, the author was a great help in helping me get the info I wanted. As regards the case label I could not find one either but there should be some in the book which I will try and replicate as best I can as long as it looks similar it will be ok Take the wood off of the for end iron work and see if their is anything stamped there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) Stamps on parts of guns may refer to particular patents and not to the maker .The gun pictured looks to be a basic sidelock gun made in Birmingham .Possibly a "Rodgers " coil spring lock [ based on the two pin bridel ] . I have owned a couple similar but not as well turned out. What sets this gun apart is the way it has been finished, well filed up ,stocked and engraved . Add that it is also an ejector so it is several steps above the basic barreled action it may well have started as . As to who made it and who finished it is anyone's guess and could well have been through the hands of several workshops had the gun been "made " by Wallas as in buying the barreled action and having the work done or by ordering the gun from a specific shop in Birmingham , who may have done the work in house , which is doubtful and would have in turn used out workers , this was the way the trade worked , as only the largest companies had the facilities to make a complete gun from start to finish . Edited December 31, 2019 by Gunman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just got my copy of the afore mentioned book - absolutely brilliant - obviously a lot of hard work has gone into it and I wish the author great success with it . It has answered a lot of my questions and has the missing trade labels nobody could find. Buy one today you never know when you might need it , highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 put some pics up of your purchase......sounds a nice gun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 see 2nd post - that is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan40 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Now just got to find out who actually make it - apparently Birmingham trade gun the quest continues not that it makes that much difference I know , just interested - is this an affliction -am I alone - do I need help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan123shooting Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 No it’s not an affliction, it’s nice to know these things. I have histories for both my Westley Richards , and my Army & Navy, which was made by Midland . Midland, Webley Scott and Westley Richards made guns for a lot of other makers. I will wish you luck with your quest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 After the introduction of breech loaders , the vast majority of guns sold in the UK had their origins in the workshops of Birmingham , London and a small amount from Belgium . No Provincial "gunmaker " had the facilities ie machine shops , and men to make complete guns . Yes they may well have bought barreled actions and finished them , or had the machine shops of Birmingham , Phillipsons or more likely Joseph Asbury , machined for them if they had the staff to do the rest . Barrels would have been bought in / ordered filed up ready for jointing .Even so this would have been beyond the capability of most names calling themselves gunmakers .Many of these were simply gunshops or more likely ironmongers who sold guns as part of their business . I do not claim this is an absolute and there will be exceptions but I can not think of any virtually unknown out of their area provincial "gunmaker" that falls into this category. This as before the mass importation of guns from the continent and the east . So if ordering a gun from Birmingham why not put your name on it ? Sell it as you own rather than as a Midland , Williams etal ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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