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LeedsZeppelin

Question about mid-beads and gun fitment.

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Posted (edited)

I bought a new shotgun over christmas for clay shooting which is the first gun I've used with a mid-bead.

I assumed that the mid-bead sat in front of the other when you looked down the rib, and the gun seemed to fit well, and feel perfect for me. I shot a decent round with it on it's first outing on boxing day (around 70% - which is good for me) and was happy with the gun. 

I've since read that the beads should make a figure of eight shape. The end bead sitting on top of the mid-bead. I tried that today only to score 8/22 on the first three stands! I reverted back to lining the beads up and got a full house on the next stand. I even managed to finish up with a card of 29/50. Again, I felt happy with how the gun performed after the change.

Talking to another shooter afterwards, he suggested the beads have proven that the gun doesn't actually fit me correctly, and suggested comb is too low and the beads should definitely form a figure of eight. Does this sound correct to you, or is he talking rubbish? Or are the beads a 'horses for courses' kind of thing?

Should I shoot with the beads lined up?Remove the mid-bead and have done?Look at getting the comb adjusted? Or bin the gun and take up knitting?

 

Edited by LeedsZeppelin
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If you’re comfortable with it and you’re hitting targets keep doing what you’re doing ! 

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11 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Or bin the gun and take up knitting?

I think this your best course of Action and can I be the first to offer you an assortment of fine Wool and some Ornately Carved Needles in exchange for the defective Gun....Please !

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Don't over think it and shoot when you feel comfortable! 

I was always of the belief that figure of 8 was only applicable with trap guns, but I'm not sure how true this is. 

Personally, i have shot guns with no bead (snapped off) and guns with a middle bead (yesterday) and if you put the barrel in the right direction the bird or clay is coming down. 

Genuinely, i can say i have no inclination of where the bead is when Im shooting. 

 

 

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Id say the beads are there so you can figure out the best sight picture for your style of shooting .which it clearly is  showing .just line them up and keep smashing those clays  .

Ps your friend is talking pap .

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The figure of eight is absute tosh. It depends on were your gun shoots it's poi and your fit and how you like the pattern 50-50, 60-40, 70-30 or even 100% above the rib, the only thing they do is make sure your looking straight down the rib as they should be inline.

My K80 had to be one behind the other or it would shoot silly high. Cynergy's I hand were more or less figure of eight not one exactly on top. 

Can't remember what the Benelli supersport is, I rarely check them. As it's mid bead is tiny.

If it fits your happy with how it shoots enjoy.

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You can check and practice your gun mount in a mirror. My advice would be to ignore the mid rib bead, keep that cheek on the comb, and just concentrate on the bird. 

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9 minutes ago, Scully said:

You can check and practice your gun mount in a mirror. My advice would be to ignore the mid rib bead, keep that cheek on the comb, and just concentrate on the bird. 

As above, if you’re looking at the beads you are not looking at the target, seems you found what works for you, stick with that. If you have access to a pattern plate you can see for yourself with carefully aimed shots where the beads put the muzzle in different situations, figure 8, lined up etc if you really want to know 

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Originally a trapshooting idea, the figure of 8 when set up correctly puts your pattern in the correct place above the rising target.

With the move of trapguns in to English Sporting for their swingability and choking the figure 8 moved across.

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This ^ 

 

Can we ask what  gun is it? And what’s the main discipline you’ll be shooting? ESP? 
 

don’t knock the knitting 🧶 there is some cold weather heading in you’ll make a killing on ear warmers 👍🏻

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33 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Originally a trapshooting idea, the figure of 8 when set up correctly puts your pattern in the correct place above the rising target.

With the move of trapguns in to English Sporting for their swingability and choking the figure 8 moved across.

Spot on as with everything in gun fitting there are hard and fast rules that must never be broken unless the shooter requires something different.  
 

If your shooting well for you ignore the beads and focus on the targets and breaking them 

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Keep calm and carry on. Should you get to a point when you have hit stalemate and feel that you could do better, find a recommended coach/fitter for advice. Have to confess that initially I thought that your post might be going in a different direction. Had it done everyone would have been telling you that they never see the rib but concentrate on the target. Some of the answers here reflect a contradiction to this.

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All depends on what you are shooting .Mid beads may and I say may help some if trap shooting butfor game its no real use at all .

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1 hour ago, Gunman said:

All depends on what you are shooting .Mid beads may and I say may help some if trap shooting butfor game its no real use at all .

Originally it was only aimed at gun up disciplines!

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If you aim the gun as you would a rifle then the "8" will cause you to shoot high. If you choose to point the gun - which is what most shotguns are designed to do - then your line of sight needs to be slightly above the rib and for that the "8" is a good starting point. Try pointing with your finger at a small object; 10:1 your finger will be below your line of sight.

I would say that most high end sporting shooters choose to point rather than aim but in the end it's up to you. Plenty of people shoot their guns flat but it is a disadvantage on some targets, particularly rising and driven type clays.

This video explains it pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaRGRxyPwi4

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13 hours ago, TK421 said:

Can we ask what  gun is it? And what’s the main discipline you’ll be shooting? ESP? 

Yes, I shoot ESP.

 

8 hours ago, Westward said:

If you aim the gun as you would a rifle then the "8" will cause you to shoot high. If you choose to point the gun - which is what most shotguns are designed to do - then your line of sight needs to be slightly above the rib and for that the "8" is a good starting point. Try pointing with your finger at a small object; 10:1 your finger will be below your line of sight.

I would say that most high end sporting shooters choose to point rather than aim but in the end it's up to you. Plenty of people shoot their guns flat but it is a disadvantage on some targets, particularly rising and driven type clays.

This video explains it pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaRGRxyPwi4

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting watch. I do shoot with my eyes on the target. Just to clarify, I only sight the bead up to check my gun mount.

 

On 05/01/2020 at 21:24, Ultrastu said:

Id say the beads are there so you can figure out the best sight picture for your style of shooting .which it clearly is  showing .just line them up and keep smashing those clays  .

Ps your friend is talking pap .

I had the feeling he was. I'll stick to lining the beads up upon mounting ti g the gun and forget about it from then on. I shot well once I started doing that.

 

On 05/01/2020 at 21:19, Snoozer said:

I think this your best course of Action and can I be the first to offer you an assortment of fine Wool and some Ornately Carved Needles in exchange for the defective Gun....Please !

As tempting as those ornately carved needles sound, the others have swayed me into giving the gun another chance, ignoring the figure of eight idea, and just shoot the gun as feels right. If I change my mind I'll let you know - I'll even knit you a multicolored gun sock! 😃

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

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On 06/01/2020 at 21:59, LeedsZeppelin said:

I had the feeling he was. I'll stick to lining the beads up upon mounting ti g the gun and forget about it from then on. I shot well once I started doing that.

How you hold and shoot the gun is absolutely your choice but your friend is not talking pap, at least not totally. Perhaps wrong to imply that the "8" is set in stone, but he's correct in that your line of sight should be above the rib. Take another look at the part of video dealing with eye alignment - and bear in mind that Ben is one of the best shots in the world. You could also search Youtube for a video on gunfit by Don Currie.

If you were designing a shotgun that was intended to be held dead flat like a rifle, wouldn't it be smarter to us a V notch sight at the breech end rather than a mid bead?

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On 07/01/2020 at 08:23, captainhastings said:

Mine has a double bead and its handy for making sure my face it correctly on the stock i find

That is all it is for.

A gun up discipline like DTL where you are all set to go before calling for the target.

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File them both off and look at the bird. If the gun any way fits you , you will break clays. I honestly never even see the gun when I shoot.  Yes, may be of some use for DTL etc where the gun is mounted and on the trap house but there again if you cannot line the rib up then as said take up knitting.   I have seen all sorts of gismos including something like a big red dotsight half way up the barrel.... fair do's the young man said his shooting had improved but I think that was down to the expensive bit of kit giving him more confidence.

As I have said before, you don't have fancy sights on your index finger, but I bet it rarely misses when you point it.

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I have three guns with mid rib beads and to be fair i feel they help me to keep my face correctly on the stock,once lined up i dont see the beads just the bird,stick with it once used to them it will be fine,take no notice of people telling you to file the beads off,they are there for a reason.

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Don’t be ‘filing’ anything off, you’ll devalue your gun. If you don’t want them then unscrew them; they’re threaded. That way you can screw them back in if and when you sell.  

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I won't be filing the beads off. I don't even notice them when my eyes are on the bird.

I'll shoot how it feels natural for now, and ignore the beads. I may get a few tuition sessions later in the year anyway, so I'll ask the question then if I still have doubts.

On 08/01/2020 at 10:26, Westward said:

How you hold and shoot the gun is absolutely your choice but your friend is not talking pap, at least not totally. Perhaps wrong to imply that the "8" is set in stone, but he's correct in that your line of sight should be above the rib. Take another look at the part of video dealing with eye alignment - and bear in mind that Ben is one of the best shots in the world. You could also search Youtube for a video on gunfit by Don Currie.

If you were designing a shotgun that was intended to be held dead flat like a rifle, wouldn't it be smarter to us a V notch sight at the breech end rather than a mid bead?

I do still see part of the rib when I am mounting the gun with the beads lined up. The amount of rib obviously increases when lowering the mid bead below the end bead. I'm not holding the gun like a rifle.

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