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Agger_91

Stubborn lab.

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Hi all I’m just looking for a little advice regarding my 2 year old lab. 
 

so it’s more of a general obedience  problem more than anything I’d say. when out on our everyday walks for the first two thirds of the walk I have no complaints what so ever. She’ll come back to the whistle, stop on the whistle, have a play with a tennis ball no problems. 
 

however on our last part of our walk she has a tendency to stop wherever she happens to be look at me and will not come when called. I’ve generally been trying to ignore it if she doesn’t come and carry on walking. But she will not move an inch. I can get into the next field out of sight and she’ll still stand/sit there. Occasionally she we half the distance between us and stop again. 
 

if she ever does get close enough or I end up walking back to her she will not come near me and I have to be gentle with her praising her and slowly creeping towards her until I can get a hand on her collar  and back on the lead. 
 

I don’t discipline her at all when I do this as I’m worried it’ll put her on edge every time I call her in as she is quite sensitive and doesn’t really respond well to a firm telling off so I’ve always tried to work on positives rather than negatives.

sorry for a long post but just hoping for a little guidance/advice.

thanks

Eddie  

 

 

 

 

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Do you drive to her walking area? If so she may be aware that walk time is over but she doesn't want it to be - she knows that the car signals funtime over. Do you feed her before you go or when you return? I think you are correct in not disciplining her so far.

Edited by bruno22rf

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Odd one that, you say she only does it on the last part of her walk, is that going back home/the car, do you take the same path on these walks? Usually when a dog develops a fault its usually something you or someone has done but you may not be aware of what you did.

Just one point dogs can become tired/bored of prolonged and repeated commands, try letting her run free without putting pressure on her with commands.  

2 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Do you drive to her walking area? If so she may be aware that walk time is over but she doesn't want it to be - she knows that the car signals funtime over. Do you feed her before you go or when you return?

you beat me to it

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thanks for your replies guys. Nah we don’t drive and we don’t feed her until after he walk. we do the same circular walk every evening so maybe she just isn’t ready to come home yet.

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Interesting problem and clearly she doesn’t want to go home and food on return doesn’t cut it. My gut feel is she has the upper hand and knows it. My labs get free running only at the start of a walk and then it is down to work when they are expected at heel at all times. If I have to use a lead I do so but generally I never use them once basic training is finished by two and I am working the dogs. I want my dogs to learn that off lead requires the same behavioural standards as on it.

Without being with you my guess is her walk is under her control And more or less on her terms. I would put her on a ten metre paracord line at the start, which she will not notice, 

On 29/12/2019 at 21:49, hawkfanz said:

 

and get control back. You don’t have to be heavy handed but when you tell her to come she should have no option. The line gives control and you reward when she complies.

Let the line trail for the whole walk and when you get to that point in the walk use the line and praise/reward to enforce/emphasise good behaviour. You just can’t let her free run until you have the recall nailed 100%.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Edited by Dave at kelton
Quote include in error

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You might have answered it yourself , doing the same circular walk each night , try doing the walk in reverse and now the nights are pulling out a bit you can also try varying the times , even try it in the dark so she keep an eye on you .

If she retrieve , you can try dropping a dummy now and again during your walk and then sending her back , this might keep her interested on what your doing or what you might do , GOOD LUCK .  

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As Dave says above try putting a running lead on her, a light tracking tape or a plastic clothes line(they slide easily and used by pointer people).

To be honest without actually seeing the dog at the time it is difficult to give a definite answer because there may be things you have not seen yourself.

Hope you manage to get it sorted.  

 

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My springer did it out the front when he didn’t want to come in, would just sit down and refuse to move. 
 

He only gets told once, then I march over to him calmly, take him by the scruff and he gets dragged to where he should have come. I don’t try to hurt him etc in anyway, but imagine it’s not pleasant.  
 

He now comes when he’s told first time. I can’t be one of these that asks the dog 15 times to do something. 

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Yeah to be fair I am very relaxed with her for the most part but saying that she does come when called until she decides not too later on.  Most of the walks are dark atm where she doesn’t seem as bad it only on the weekend lighter walks where she plays up most. 
 

I’ll try to mix the walks up abit to keep it fresh and interesting for her and will also try a long cord for the later stages of the walk. 
 

I haven’t taken her out in the field yet as I haven’t had the opportunity or time the past year but will be hoping to over the next year especially as I’m keen to try and find a permission to get on the pigeons. but abit more work is needed over spring and summer before that. 

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11 hours ago, Agger_91 said:

Yeah to be fair I am very relaxed with her for the most part but saying that she does come when called until she decides not too later on.  Most of the walks are dark atm where she doesn’t seem as bad it only on the weekend lighter walks where she plays up most. 
 

I’ll try to mix the walks up abit to keep it fresh and interesting for her and will also try a long cord for the later stages of the walk. 
 

I haven’t taken her out in the field yet as I haven’t had the opportunity or time the past year but will be hoping to over the next year especially as I’m keen to try and find a permission to get on the pigeons. but abit more work is needed over spring and summer before that. 


Just think the dog needs to listen 100% of the time before taking it out 👍🏻 

 

PS: Just before you get to the spot where the dog tries it on, pop the lead on 🤷‍♂️ Might be an idea. 

 

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You’ve said it you do the same walk so knows the walk is near end  

need to change up the walks diff routes and in reverse  so she don’t know what’s what and when walk is coming to end then she will have to listen as she don’t know the end is near  

and keep her in lead doing that route so she learns ignoring you is not an option and only way to get off lead is to do as she’s told 

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13 hours ago, Agger_91 said:

Yeah to be fair I am very relaxed with her for the most part but saying that she does come when called until she decides not too later on.  Most of the walks are dark atm where she doesn’t seem as bad it only on the weekend lighter walks where she plays up most. 
 

I’ll try to mix the walks up abit to keep it fresh and interesting for her and will also try a long cord for the later stages of the walk. 
 

I haven’t taken her out in the field yet as I haven’t had the opportunity or time the past year but will be hoping to over the next year especially as I’m keen to try and find a permission to get on the pigeons. but abit more work is needed over spring and summer before that. 

^^^This is the most likely cause of your problem.

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Thanks for your responses. 
 

I agree completely with what your all saying so will be trying to be abit stricter with her and get her walking to heel more off the lead and try alternate routes and go from there. 
 

yeah I’m really keen/excited to get her out this year and see how we get on.

 

thanks 

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You haven't taken her out in the field over the last year!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you have answered your own question - my Springers get 4 + miles/day off lead during the winter - more in the summer - that's over 4 miles that I walk so god alone knows how many more they do searching the hedges. How far does she get walked each day?

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On 13/01/2020 at 01:23, Dave at kelton said:

My gut feel is she has the upper hand and knows it.

This is my guess also. And the rest of this post is for the OP because I'm sure Dave knows backwards and more everything that's about to follow.

 

There are two reasons why a dog doesn't obey a command.

1) It hasn't been properly conditioned to respond to the command.

2) It chooses not to respond.

The first thing to do is to decide if you're dealing with 1 or 2.  Everything else will follow from there.

That said, of course naturally there are grey areas between the two. Young dogs  particularly will lose focus when things get exciting and will deaf out commands that in training they would respond to. I'd put this in the 1) category and the answer to that would be more responsive conditioning. With perhaps a a little light discipline to concentrate the mind.  But that would be secondary.

 

On 13/01/2020 at 00:13, Agger_91 said:

wever on our last part of our walk she has a tendency to stop wherever she happens to be look at me and will not come when called.

This is the dog making a conscious decision not to obey a command and that's a whole different story. If it were me, the moment the dog looked at me and basically said 'f**you;! ' I'd be running to make it regret that decision. Then the next time that the command was given and the dog responded positively, it would be all effusive praise.

Like the Columbian drug lords say 'Plata o plomo?" Money or lead - take your choice. And dogs are OK with that. They're pretty simple animals really, and they're happiest when the choices and parameters are clear cut.

Edited by Retsdon

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Yeah I definitely need to be firmer with her the problem I know I’d have with running at her like that is that I will never catch her and then she knows she’s in trouble so getting her close enough to put her back on the lead when needed becomes difficult even though me being angry with her has passed. 

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Perhaps you could try to do something exciting near the end of the walk -in a random place- like hide a ball, and give her a serious hunt. Basically do something surprising that is good play, rewarding, and good training.

I do that with mine, and it's actually quite hard to sneak a ball out of her sight as she's really very very attentive, as she knows the rules of the play. I also encourage that as even if she wins early, it means she was paying close attention at what I was doing anyway -- and that's good behaviour. If you do the same walk, perhaps hide the odd balls one day, and have her hunt for them the following day. I know that my dog rates 'hunt' much higher than anything, including food/treats...

 

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Yeah that’s a good idea I will try that when the wet wether passes cause knowing my luck it’ll flood that night to never see the ball again 😂 

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