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Its grim up North !!


Rewulf
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4 hours ago, semi-auto said:

It's not so much the police as the judiciary that are the problem. One only has to watch Police Interceptors or some other such programme to realise that punishments rarely fit the crime. What exactly does 'released under investigation' actually mean. We see criminals stealing cars, driving like lunatics to escape pursuing police and then if caught and charged, which is not always the case because of lack of evidence????, are 'sentenced' with a driving ban (some are already banned, so what good does that do?) and community service, which I am assured by those who know, means absolutely nothing as they don't turn up! Is it not about time that magistrates and judges take a firmer line and actually imprison these people who represent a real threat to society? Even when officers are attacked and injured in the line of duty, the perpetrators are given a desultory sentence, often not involving incarceration. How dispiriting this must be for the officers involved?

I agree but magistrates are not given the freedom of choice in sentencing that you might imagine they have. I know of several magistrates who have given up because of the frustration it caused them day to day 

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1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

I agree but magistrates are not given the freedom of choice in sentencing that you might imagine they have. I know of several magistrates who have given up because of the frustration it caused them day to day 

Constant political tinkering behind the scenes, done probably by lobbyists seeking to gain advantage by some faction that deems themselves  as disadvantaged.

The result seems always to be, that the position of the minority is deemed more important than that of the majority? Common sense is an  irrelevance?

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26 minutes ago, old man said:

Constant political tinkering behind the scenes, done probably by lobbyists seeking to gain advantage by some faction that deems themselves  as disadvantaged.

The result seems always to be, that the position of the minority is deemed more important than that of the majority? Common sense is an  irrelevance?

Its not about lobbyists and people pulling strings its more about money and resources, or lack of them.

"You can't send anybody to prison this week because they are rammed and can't cope with who they have got now"

OK same as last week then, and the week before.

"Oh and by the way you cant give community sentences either because they haven't got the staff to supervise them"

So what can I do?

"You can tell them they are very naughty boys and girls and wag your finger at them, that's what we are doing this week"

Its not the magistrates fault although they are more than aware that they often appear soft.

Edited by Vince Green
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1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Its not about lobbyists and people pulling strings its more about money and resources, or lack of them.

"You can't send anybody to prison this week because they are rammed and can't cope with who they have got now"

OK same as last week then, and the week before.

"Oh and by the way you cant give community sentences either because they haven't got the staff to supervise them"

So what can I do?

"You can tell them they are very naughty boys and girls and wag your finger at them, that's what we are doing this week"

Its not the magistrates fault although they are more than aware that they often appear soft.

No space for serious criminals but they found space in Pentonville for the guy who freeclimbed the Shard. He served 3 months from a 6 month sentence and his was only a civil offence.

The mind boggles.

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On 13/01/2020 at 12:39, Rewulf said:

PC culture plays a part, with a pathological fear of upsetting people.

Many will blame poverty and cuts in  law enforcement, but it doesnt matter how many cops there are if they darent arrest anyone.

You have the same problem in London, where a 'robust' method of taking down moped thieves reaped benefits, and actually cut the crime rate, yet was greeted with howls of derision , because they might hurt the perps !
Yet not a jot was mentioned of all the innocent people robbed at knifepoint, bags yanked out of peoples hands and shoulders, and brazen daylight highwayman tactics used.

In this case you have a lawless estate where crime is allowed to flourish, and certainly not the first time the police have come under attack trying to counter criminal behaviour.

Obviously there are sections of society that dont want law and order, and prefer the law of the jungle, problem is , as many dont work, we have to pay for this lifestyle of crime.

No doubt some on here will wring out their bleeding hearts and proclaim that its not really the perps fault, and 'society' let them down, 'failed' them somehow ?
But fixing issues in your life starts , and ultimately ends, with YOU.
And if you cant try to make the place you live, and are responsible for, stable, then its not societies problem, its yours.
If you want to live in **** , get on with it, but dont blame everyone else for the fact.

Exactly, but why dont they do something about it.
Get reporting, stop accepting that this is all there is , if your house is a mess, CLEAN IT.

Simple cure, deterrents that will deter, but, will the liberal snowflakes be able to live with this.
Remember (seniors only)  at school - the cane, gym pump and slipper and the wrath of the PE master who couldn't half bowl you over.
I remember them well and they soon cured you of stupidity.

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3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its not about lobbyists and people pulling strings its more about money and resources, or lack of them.

"You can't send anybody to prison this week because they are rammed and can't cope with who they have got now"

OK same as last week then, and the week before.

"Oh and by the way you cant give community sentences either because they haven't got the staff to supervise them"

So what can I do?

"You can tell them they are very naughty boys and girls and wag your finger at them, that's what we are doing this week"

Its not the magistrates fault although they are more than aware that they often appear soft.

they could find a few more  cells if capital punishment  was brought back for murderers  and terrorists !   

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3 hours ago, derbyduck said:

they could find a few more  cells if capital punishment  was brought back for murderers  and terrorists !   

They could find a lot more cells if we weren't paying host to a disproportionaly high percentage of foreign nationals. Most of whom should never have been here in the first place

At any time about 4000 EU citizens enjoy our hospitality, up to 200 (mostly Jamaican mostly female) drug mules. and so on down the line. Add to that Indian, Pakistani, Afghan. Nigerian,  etc and you start to realise that the price of a Cosmopolitan country is cosmopolitan crime. 

But we are not allowed to say that

Many illegal immigrants and asylum seekers actually escape being sent to prison simply because the Prison Service know they cant legally be released at the end of their sentence so they wont take them.

The Home office can't be bothered to try and deport them knowing that, without a passport, the C of O ( country of Origin) won't take them back.. So they just  get let off all sorts of serious crimes  .

I tell you, you couldn't make this stuff up.  

Edited by Vince Green
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9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

....the price of a Cosmopolitan country is cosmopolitan crime. 

...But we are not allowed to say that...

Yet you did. Strange statistic about prison populations is that 10% (app.) are former armed services members, now that is disproportionate!

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9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

They could find a lot more cells if we weren't paying host to a disproportionaly high percentage of foreign nationals. Most of whom should never have been here in the first place

At any time about 4000 EU citizens enjoy our hospitality, up to 200 (mostly Jamaican mostly female) drug mules. and so on down the line. Add to that Indian, Pakistani, Afghan. Nigerian,  etc and you start to realise that the price of a Cosmopolitan country is cosmopolitan crime. 

But we are not allowed to say that

Many illegal immigrants and asylum seekers actually escape being sent to prison simply because the Prison Service know they cant legally be released at the end of their sentence so they wont take them.

The Home office can't be bothered to try and deport them knowing that, without a passport, the C of O ( country of Origin) won't take them back.. So they just  get let off all sorts of serious crimes  .

I tell you, you couldn't make this stuff up.  

so it's ok for murderers to get thier 3 square a day and all the other comforts allowed to them ?

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3 hours ago, derbyduck said:

so it's ok for murderers to get thier 3 square a day and all the other comforts allowed to them ?

Murders tend to get sent to different prisons where the day to day regime is very different to the overcrowded holding pens that short stay prisoners have to endure. They get a much more comfortable time inside generally speaking.

Many prisoners, I am told, get so institutionalised that they don't want to be released. Life on the outside with all its uncertainty frightens them. Which is one of the reasons they repeat offend, to get back.

Edited by Vince Green
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