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Farmboy91

BASC statement

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6 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

 

In the least sarcastically way possible, what do you two suggest we do? 

trouble is basc should know thats what they are there for    thats why we chose them as our mouth piece

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Indeed! its easy to post statements like that on a forum, but what do you think or hope it will achieve?  Do you honestly think saying things like this will have a positive effect on keeping shooting safe or improve things overall?  By all means make positive suggestions , or better still engage enthusiastically with your chosen organisation and keep this divisive stuff off forums. Those that oppose shooting absolutely  love it to see shooters arguing among themselves or attacking the very organisations that are working to help members and support shooting at every level, you are doing their job for them!

BASC staff and I hope members know exactly what BASC are here for- but for the avoidance of doubt take a look here:

https://basc.org.uk/about-us/

David

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1 minute ago, David BASC said:

Indeed! its easy to post statements like that on a forum, but what do you think or hope it will achieve?  Do you honestly think saying things like this will have a positive effect on keeping shooting safe or improve things overall?  By all means make positive suggestions , or better still engage enthusiastically with your chosen organisation and keep this divisive stuff off forums. Those that oppose shooting absolutely  love it to see shooters arguing among themselves or attacking the very organisations that are working to help members and support shooting at every level, you are doing their job for them!

i didnt think we were arguing i was just stating a fact

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6 minutes ago, dodgy dave said:

trouble is basc should know thats what they are there for    thats why we chose them as our mouth piece

No organisation is perfect, but I wouldn't like to think what it would be like without BASC in our corner. I asked the question of those two because it is easy to criticize and easier still not to come up with some ideas yourself.

David's last post hits the nail on the head pretty well. 

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DD, my post was not aimed at you, sorry if you took it that way! As I posted via the web link this is exactly what BASC is here for and what we are working towards, if we can get more members engaged with this all the better.

My point was that those standing on the side lines saying BASC is an 'empty organisation' without qualifying the statement or offering their view on what BASC could be doing differently  etc are not helping anyone or anything

ta

David

Edited by David BASC

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On 17/01/2020 at 12:16, David BASC said:

DD, my post was not aimed at you, sorry if you took it that way! As I posted via the web link this is exactly what BASC is here for and what we are working towards, if we can get more members engaged with this all the better.

My point was that those standing on the side lines saying BASC is an 'empty organisation' without qualifying the statement or offering their view on what BASC could be doing differently  etc are not helping anyone or anything

ta

David

For non-game shooters, BASC has very little to offer.

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9 minutes ago, Cheshirelad said:

For non-game shooters, BASC has very little to offer.

I don’t believe BASC is aimed at clay shooters.

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Their Wildlife Habitat Trust Fund has done a lot for non game shooting wildfowlers. Their DSC courses and deer stalking opportunities on Arran do a lot for non game shooting deer stalkers and their firearms advisory service probably helps a lot of non game shooting potential rim fire and centre fire owners in their quest for their first FAC to control vermin. That’s three off the top of my head there’s probably a lot more.

Edited by Konor
Word omission

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1 hour ago, London Best said:

In this instance I was classing all live quarry shooting as “game”.

 

4 hours ago, Cheshirelad said:

For non-game shooters, BASC has very little to offer.

Game shooting to me has always been quarry that required a game licence in the past . I don’t know what Cheshirelad was referring to when he writes non-game shooters, I assume quarry other than game ie pigeon ,rabbit, wildfowl etc. 
I understand that pigeonwatch forum performs many roles but I’m sorry to see it being used as a platform to knock an organisation whose function is to represent promote and defend all those that shoot. You don’t have to agree with all BASC does or the way that it does it, we very often disagree amongst ourselves on the forum, but as BASC ultimately has the welfare of the shooting sports as its core objective it’s about time all shooters acknowledged that and supported BASC by becoming a member. We can all argue about the fine detail of achieving objectives when we are all on board.

With the massive increase in people living their lives through the internet uninformed biased opinion has never been easier to spread and angry ill informed opinionated people are not in short supply. We really need as much evidence based information to counter all the negative opinions being spread and show shooting in a positive light because it is the middle ground opinion that we need to influence.
There are lots of positive aspects to harvesting game for the pot and we have a lot in common with other conservationists who wish to see thriving ecosystems and abundant wildlife.

In many small towns going out with a gun and returning home with game ,in its widest sense ,is not an issue ,it has occurred for generations and is acceptable .We all need to work towards convincing those ,mainly but not always ,in cities that  the  harvest of game is as acceptable and no different to a fisherman ,or woman, bringing home a fish for tea. BASC and all the shooting organisations play a massive role in representing us and informing the public of our true nature and without that representation we would more easily be portrayed as gun loving nuts hooked on killing animals for pleasure because in essence that is how anti fieldsports supporters portray us. 

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19 minutes ago, Konor said:

 

Game shooting to me has always been quarry that required a game licence in the past . I don’t know what Cheshirelad was referring to when he writes non-game shooters, I assume quarry other than game ie pigeon ,rabbit, wildfowl etc. 
I understand that pigeonwatch forum performs many roles but I’m sorry to see it being used as a platform to knock an organisation whose function is to represent promote and defend all those that shoot. You don’t have to agree with all BASC does or the way that it does it, we very often disagree amongst ourselves on the forum, but as BASC ultimately has the welfare of the shooting sports as its core objective it’s about time all shooters acknowledged that and supported BASC by becoming a member. We can all argue about the fine detail of achieving objectives when we are all on board.

With the massive increase in people living their lives through the internet uninformed biased opinion has never been easier to spread and angry ill informed opinionated people are not in short supply. We really need as much evidence based information to counter all the negative opinions being spread and show shooting in a positive light because it is the middle ground opinion that we need to influence.
There are lots of positive aspects to harvesting game for the pot and we have a lot in common with other conservationists who wish to see thriving ecosystems and abundant wildlife.

In many small towns going out with a gun and returning home with game ,in its widest sense ,is not an issue ,it has occurred for generations and is acceptable .We all need to work towards convincing those ,mainly but not always ,in cities that  the  harvest of game is as acceptable and no different to a fisherman ,or woman, bringing home a fish for tea. BASC and all the shooting organisations play a massive role in representing us and informing the public of our true nature and without that representation we would more easily be portrayed as gun loving nuts hooked on killing animals for pleasure because in essence that is how anti fieldsports supporters portray us. 

Are you really as naive as that post would suggest? 

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Far from it .I just don’t see how a bunch of whinging guys complaining that an organisation is not doing anything to help them personally helps to promote shooting. 
Could you be more specific on the naivety angle or better still ,rather than insult ,debate the posts points.

Edited by Konor
Expansion

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35 minutes ago, Konor said:

Far from it .I just don’t see how a bunch of whinging guys complaining that an organisation is not doing anything to help them personally helps to promote shooting. 
Could you be more specific on the naivety angle

when BASC say they will help you personally  but don't then members have a right to have a whinge,

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I didn't say they didn't have a right to whinge what I said was that whinging didn't help to promote shooting

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I don't know what all the fuss about lead shot is all about? Given the dire job done in convincing the wider public of the ethics and sustainability of game bird shooting in the UK, and the latest notice from Wild Justice, I'd give it another five years maximum before everyone is turning their 'Purdey's' into wall hangers anyway.

Edited by mick miller

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It's down to all who shoot to help prove the sustainability of shooting, shoots complying with the Code of Good of Shooting Practice would be a good start, it details for example, maximum stocking densities for released game, the need for all shot game to go into the food chain, and much more.

The code is not hard to follow and comply with.

Shooting and Conservation go hand in hand, we just need to keep showing this, whether its at national level or on your local shoot. 

Get a copy of the Code and check that your game shoot is complying, regardless of how many birds you put down or rear on the land.

If anyone wants a hard copy of the Code, member of BASC or not just e-mail me with your postal address and I will send you one, david.ilsley@basc.org.uk, or pop onto the BASC website and do  a 'search' for the Code

David

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I am sorry David, but I feel that youand BASC are being either naive of wilfully obtuse. I have been along term supporter of BASC and even stood for council twice, but was not elected, but as long as one side are willing to use the courts and the "government", I include QUANGOs in this, rolll over at the first sign of a lawyer we have to use the same tactics. BASC must get some teeth.

 

David.

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25 minutes ago, Kalahari said:

I am sorry David, but I feel that youand BASC are being either naive of wilfully obtuse. I have been along term supporter of BASC and even stood for council twice, but was not elected, but as long as one side are willing to use the courts and the "government", I include QUANGOs in this, rolll over at the first sign of a lawyer we have to use the same tactics. BASC must get some teeth.

 

David.

:good:

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30 minutes ago, Kalahari said:

I am sorry David, but I feel that youand BASC are being either naive of wilfully obtuse. I have been along term supporter of BASC and even stood for council twice, but was not elected, but as long as one side are willing to use the courts and the "government", I include QUANGOs in this, rolll over at the first sign of a lawyer we have to use the same tactics. BASC must get some teeth.

 

David.

110% agree if the political path is so successful how come wild justice go straight in with a judicial review?

And all this talk about banning lead shot and moving over to steel may be ok for 10ga, 12ga and 20ga but is not so clever for 28ga and .410 which will be next to useless with steel shot so only very expensive non-toxic will then be viable.

With the exception of fibre shot cup wads and the Spanish degradable plastic wads like eley are now using, both option of which are considerably more expensive the only other choice is non-biodegradable plastic wads which are thicker and tougher than normal lead shot plastic wads so will be in the environment for many years so a call to ban them will follow.
End game could be all shooting is priced outside that which is tenable who would pay £300 or more for a thousand cartridges to go clay shooting?

Also any ban will include lead ammunition which will have a major impact on the little .22lr

 

 

Edited by rbrowning2

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at last one or two people are finally admitting the truth all basc can do to any threat is a stern letter and finger wagging had basc been honest enough to admit they had no teeth my own stance would not have been needed all private ownership of firearms will be banned unless you stop giving your hard earned money to a toothless yorkie i had my shooting career and will be gone when your left with nothing but a catapult this is about you wake up thank you 

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58 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

110% agree if the political path is so successful how come wild justice go straight in with a judicial review?

And all this talk about banning lead shot and moving over to steel may be ok for 10ga, 12ga and 20ga but is not so clever for 28ga and .410 which will be next to useless with steel shot so only very expensive non-toxic will then be viable.

With the exception of fibre shot cup wads and the Spanish degradable plastic wads like eley are now using, both option of which are considerably more expensive the only other choice is non-biodegradable plastic wads which are thicker and tougher than normal lead shot plastic wads so will be in the environment for many years so a call to ban them will follow.
End game could be all shooting is priced outside that which is tenable who would pay £300 or more for a thousand cartridges to go clay shooting?

Also any ban will include lead ammunition which will have a major impact on the little .22lr

 

 

This is where I came in and this issue is in the main the reason I went out again. Into PW and out of BASC after half a lifetime. To offer criticism when you consider it necessary and be termed a BASC Basher is nothing more than infantile alliteration so is of no consequence. Now we've progressed to BASC Hater. HATE! REALLY? This, of course, is no criticism of BASC - I've lost that right. What is particularly sad is to see more than one previously stalwart BASC member now becoming somewhat disenchanted. Unlike the "debate" when WAGBI changed to BASC, if this dissatisfaction continues I can see BAGSC will be born without a murmer.

It won't affect me so I have no axe to grind; but forget shot material, forget WJ and also Joe Public, our biggest threat sooner or later is going to be education - the lack of it.

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1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

..........End game could be all shooting is priced outside that which is tenable who would pay £300 or more for a thousand cartridges to go clay shooting?.....

Absolutely agree I feel BASC have performed a sudden U turn on this from disparaging "The Lead Advisory Group" to chucking clay shooting under the bus. Has new science suddenly emerged about lead that they arn't telling us.

 

I think the Phrase "chuck under the bus" is now old and under used so I will propose another.

BASC are so fixated on certain areas of shooting (driven game) that they endanger other shooters, they "Follow across the line".

 

 

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An interesting but negative read! Be interesting to see what/if DEFRA NE come up with in next 2 weeks? I hope our orgs are being consulted and as much involved in talks and policy making as as WJ seem to be? WHY?    NB

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Rifles be it powder burners or more so air powered having to move to lead free will be hard. 

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