mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Hi all, just trying to get my head around a certain point. Let's say I want to shoot lead 6's as an example Q. Why would someone choose 30grms when a 32grm load would give more pellets? Sorry if it sounds a stupid question but if you don't know something then you need to ask the question Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Cost, recoil, availability for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 In the same cartridge the 30g should be a bit cheaper, less lead and propellent and should have a bit less recoil but it doesn't always work like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Cost, recoil, availability for a start. Assume for a moment these aren't a problem, any other reason? 7 minutes ago, bluesj said: In the same cartridge the 30g should be a bit cheaper, less lead and propellent and should have a bit less recoil but it doesn't always work like that. LOL. . . .Another one of life's grey question/answer topic again, fab. . . .what else is at play in the mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, mgsontour said: Assume for a moment these aren't a problem, any other reason? What do you perceive the possible problem to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 So why not use 36g for the same reason? The answer is that the reasons are many and varied. In short get to know how many pellets are required to ensure as far as is possible a clean kill when taking into account the quarry, your maximum envisaged range and the performance of your gun/cartridge in terms of pattern density. You have already taken into account energy by your choice of shot size. Just in case you misunderstand more pellets do not mean a bigger effective pattern area although I'm sure you understand that already, but it's not unheard of. using a greater load than necessary is wasteful for various mostly obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 More pellets in the pattern at a given and/or a longer range. Wildfowlers in the lead days, used to want bigger loads of bigger shot....to bring down tough birds at range. 28 or 30g loads are adequate for most game shooting situations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: What do you perceive the possible problem to be? I couldn't think of any but guessed there must be a technical reason as opposed to a financial/availability/recoil 3 minutes ago, wymberley said: So why not use 36g for the same reason? The answer is that the reasons are many and varied. In short get to know how many pellets are required to ensure as far as is possible a clean kill when taking into account the quarry, your maximum envisaged range and the performance of your gun/cartridge in terms of pattern density. You have already taken into account energy by your choice of shot size. Just in case you misunderstand more pellets do not mean a bigger effective pattern area although I'm sure you understand that already, but it's not unheard of. using a greater load than necessary is wasteful for various mostly obvious reasons. I assumed more pellets did in fact give a bigger effective pattern area by simple maths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Apologies to you all for being ignorant, but as I said above if you don't know something you have to ask and did read the manufacturers description/specs before posting this thread but it didn't answer my question I posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, mgsontour said: Apologies to you all for being ignorant, but as I said above if you don't know something you have to ask and did read the manufacturers description/specs before posting this thread but it didn't answer my question I posted Be very careful believing what manufacturers put on their boxes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) There's not alot an Oz of 6's won't do. Edited January 19, 2020 by Farmboy91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 31 minutes ago, mgsontour said: I couldn't think of any but guessed there must be a technical reason as opposed to a financial/availability/recoil I assumed more pellets did in fact give a bigger effective pattern area by simple maths? Tend to do my own thing now so don't know what's what currently, but when working with BASC back along although not frequent this train of thought was not uncommon among the students. The pellet spread is constrained by the choke and the only way to increase it is to reduce the level of choke. That's all very well, but a shotgun is a scattergun and does it very well. Consequently, any testing, experiments, pattern checks, etc, etc carried out have to rely on an average performance for a result. Here's the rub. By it's very nature an average is no good to us as we require a specific pellet count when working within reason. Therefore our required average is one that gives the minimum number of pellets that we require on every shot - again within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: There's not alot an Oz of 6's won't do. I absolutely agree 100% with you but the options today on buying cartridges is crazy and I was trying to make sense of it all in plain English. A wise man once told me 'if you can't write it on the back of a beer mat it's far too complicated' recently I struggle to find a beer mat when I go for a pint but still recon your wise words would fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 That's a sign of the times - used to be a fag packet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, wymberley said: That's a sign of the times - used to be a fag packet. I get it; I really do. May I ask everyone this quick question, money no object and assuming your gun would take it, what would be your preferred cartridge for Geese Ducks Pheasant Partridge Pigeon I guess Farmboy91 is going for an Oz of 6's right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, mgsontour said: I absolutely agree 100% with you but the options today on buying cartridges is crazy and I was trying to make sense of it all in plain English. A wise man once told me 'if you can't write it on the back of a beer mat it's far too complicated' recently I struggle to find a beer mat when I go for a pint but still recon your wise words would fit Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't take an Oz of 6's if I was going foxing, but they cover most eventualities. It's ridiculous now, but as they say, a fool and he's money are easily parted, while people will buy into the cartridge companies marketing, they'll keep pushing those ridiculous loads and fancy packaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) I have killed several geese over the years with an oz of no.6, when that is what happened to be in the barrel when a goose appeared. I am not saying it would be my first choice for geese, but it will always work with a headshot. Same goes for foxes. Edited January 19, 2020 by London Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, mgsontour said: I get it; I really do. May I ask everyone this quick question, money no object and assuming your gun would take it, what would be your preferred cartridge for Geese 36g No 3 to 50 yards, 50g to No 2 to 55yards 54g No 1 to 60 yards Ducks 32g no 6 to 45 yards, 36g No 6 to 50 yards, 50g no 5 to 60 yards Pheasant 28g No 7 to 40 yards, 32g no 6 to 45 yards, 36g no 6 to 50 yards, 50g no 5 to 60 yards Partridge 28g No 7 to 40 yards, 32g No 6 to 45 yards, 36g no 6 to 50 yards Pigeon 28g No 7 to 45 yards, 32g no 6.5 to 50 yards, 46g no 6 to 55 yards I guess Farmboy91 is going for an Oz of 6's right? When shooting a 12bore in Scotland, I would go 28g No 7 for Pheasant and smaller, any fibre No 7.5 Euro clay shell (No 7 UK sized), have Gamebore Balck Gold at present 36g No 6 for Duck (if lead), Lyalvale Super Game Fibre, Lyalvale 36g No 3 (if steel) for both flighting and decoying 50g No 1 Lyalvale (Actually a No 2 in sizing in lead) for geese, or 36g Lyalvale Max Steel No 1 If Money was no object, TSS loads (Tungsten 18g/cc), but these have aminimum range of 25 yards due to density of pattern at close range, but, 28g No 8 for game (Pheasant,Duck and smaller) up to 75 yards 40g No 6 for geese to 75 yards Both of those will give a killing pattern at those ranges with moderate velocity and softish recoil, but you are £2.50 and £4.00 a shot respectively, homeloading and probably twice that if a manufacturer decides to produce them commercially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Lighter cartridges are generally more pleasant to shoot and cheaper. They are also less likely to mince the bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 From your original post normaly 28 gram 7 then 30 gram 6 then 32 gram 5 as they have almost(There’s bound to be someone with the exact) got the same shot count so the pattern is similar density just with a bit more energy per pellet this varies depending upon the choice of chokes mostly using fixed chokes I tend to change the cartridge to slightly alter the pattern money no object TTS heavy shot tungsten all day long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, mgsontour said: I get it; I really do. May I ask everyone this quick question, money no object and assuming your gun would take it, what would be your preferred cartridge for Geese Ducks Pheasant Partridge Pigeon I guess Farmboy91 is going for an Oz of 6's right? Lol wing shooting I'd prefer and Oz of English 7's. Don't get me wrong, I don't exclusively use 1 Oz loads, if I'm walking up the hedgerows an Oz 1/8 of 5's or 6's incase Charlie pop's he's head out. I've not shot for 8 months or so because of an injury but before that I wasn't too keen on smashing my shoulder about with big loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 The gun your shooting it through makes a huge difference .a light weight sxs or an alloy action ou .or single barrel .will hurt you with much over 32 grm . Equally a heavy gun can handle heavy loads and not transmit all the energy into the shooter . So not everyone wants a heavy or light gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 hours ago, mgsontour said: Hi all, just trying to get my head around a certain point. Let's say I want to shoot lead 6's as an example Q. Why would someone choose 30grms when a 32grm load would give more pellets? Sorry if it sounds a stupid question but if you don't know something then you need to ask the question Cheers I think it's all down to personal preference really, and more to do with that than anything regarding which cartridges we choose, with specific cases as exceptions. As shooters we try many many different guns and loads over the course of our shooting lives, and some ( by more to do with luck than good management ) happen upon a cartridge and gun with which they experience superb results, and regardless of shot size or weight of charge, nor recommendations from other shooters, they stick with. There are two for me, the first of which is Gamebore Clear Pigeon 30grm 6's. I discovered these many moons ago and found they were the best all round cartridge through my Winchester 101's for ferreting bunnies to guns. They will bowl over those rabbits no problem whatsoever, even going away ones. In the past I have shot some unforgettable pheasants with these, and they are my go to cartridge in the hide. I am never without these. The second is SIPE 32grm 5's which I now shoot game with exclusively throughout the season. I can't recall why I initially tried these cartridges, but after having great success with them on a shoot, and realising I was going to need something a bit punchy on last seasons beaters day I decided to use them in my Gamba and I had my best ever days shooting. I've used them throughout this season and they are the dogs danglies for me, they just fold up stuff in the air. Saying all this, most foxes on driven bird days are killed with shot size 6, although it isn't ideal as sometimes a follow up is needed, and if you put that pattern where it matters, within accepted parameters, any cartridge will do the job. People shoot game with .410's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I buy whatever in price bands. I bought a box of shells from a shop once. 25 shells for £10. I then decided to make them. As for loadings. Its whatever i can get. My go to shells are not under an ounce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Hi all, me again and thank you very much for all your comments and suggestions. I ended up with these as an all rounder at £66 a slab https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/pigeon-high-velocity I was tempted with the Zenith ( but TIGHTCHOKE words above "Be very careful believing what manufacturers put on their boxes" ) rattled around by head when the price was announced at £94 Again thank you and hope you have all had a good season!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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