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POA / POI - over and under v side by side


PeterHenry
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Hi all,

I've recently purchased a Browning over and under after shooting (more or less exclusively) with old English and Scottish side by sides. 

Granted, it's a very different gun - however, i was wondering if theres any truth in having to 'aim' / point at the birds feet with an over and under, instead of straight at them as with a side by side (with a conventional rib).

All thoughts appreciated

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25 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Very much depends if the gun fits you!

Ah, yes - it does - I made sure of that when I got it.

25 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, theres a post much like your by PW member Dad, in general shooting matters.

 

That's great thanks, I'll try and dig it out.

18 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Rule of thumb . with S x S you shoot in front and behind , with a O / U you shoot above and below .Like all new guns you just have to learn to shoot it .

Thanks

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As the 2 gentleman above have asked .

How do you know it fits ? ..if your missing targets  

Imo . (Not that i know everything )id start on a static pattern plate  and start with a comfortable aim at a dot  and see where your landing ,and repeat .

Then when happy  move to much faster quick acquisition  of the target and fire .you should still hit dead centre and repeat .

After that you can move onto moving targets simple clays .and hopefully break them . (We tend to see and follow  and position our gun on a moving target different to that of a static one .) 

When your happy you breaking these easy clays .you can say the gun fits you .

Obviously  if your not hitting your aimpoint at any of the 3 stages above you need to adjust the gun to suit you till you are and then move to the next stage and fine adjust if required   .

Well thats how i get a gun to fit me  anyway  .non of this someone looking down the barrel at my eye pap .

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Don't POINT the gun in the first place. As TC says the gun should fit you and then it will automatically come into play as you look at the bird. I was asked today if I look at 'the flat' when shooting....honestly hadn't a clue what he meant ... I said I just look at the bird, I don't SEE the gun.   My 410 ain't no fancy expensive article , just a base model Yilditz O/U but the moment I lifted it to my shoulder in the gun shop I knew it fitted me as near as dam it.   A dozen partridge and half dozen pheasants today seemed to agree:yes:

Get a Pro Stocker to check you out with the gun wearing your normal shooting clothing.

The two guns I have had professionally fitted a pattern plate was not used. After checking the gun was empty the stocker stood about 15yrds infront of me and asked me to mount the gun in one smooth action and look at his nose without actually AIMING along the barrel and having done this half a dozen times with his try gun he then made up my stocks.

 

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SxS are so easy to get moving but also so easy to stop as you pull the trigger, too many factors for you to try and sort easily, a session with a good coach will help.

Ultrastu you had me chuckling at, non of this looking down the barrel at my eye pap 😂😂

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Well ive seen people do it .how does that guy know where the  shooter places the barrel in relation to a bird  ? .i personally have my bird (say on a flat crosser .) Quite a lot above the barrel .i like to see all the bird and never cover it unless its coming directly towards and above me . Thats my sight picture .

My mate is the opposite he covers his bird with his barrels . So his sight picture is different  

Thats nothing to do with the gun its just how we prefer to see our bird  .so he sets his guns up different to me .as a consequence  i cant hit a cows back end with his guns and he cant shoot mine .Though we are similar size and shoot similar guns  .

Like walker says above .you should just be able to pick it up and hit what you want with virtually zero thought as to aiming it  .if your constantly trying to get your head down or over ,or looking at the bead  then your not looking at the bird and the gun doesnt fall naturally or shoot where the eye is looking.

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7 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Well ive seen people do it .how does that guy know where the  shooter places the barrel in relation to a bird  ? .i personally have my bird (say on a flat crosser .) Quite a lot above the barrel .i like to see all the bird and never cover it unless its coming directly towards and above me . Thats my sight picture .

My mate is the opposite he covers his bird with his barrels . So his sight picture is different  

Thats nothing to do with the gun its just how we prefer to see our bird  .so he sets his guns up different to me .as a consequence  i cant hit a cows back end with his guns and he cant shoot mine .Though we are similar size and shoot similar guns  .

Like walker says above .you should just be able to pick it up and hit what you want with virtually zero thought as to aiming it  .if your constantly trying to get your head down or over ,or looking at the bead  then your not looking at the bird and the gun doesnt fall naturally or shoot where the eye is looking.

The gun fitter know how the client like his/her gun set up by talking to the client at about their shooting and preference then watching them shoot.  The gun fitters experience then comes into play.  

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But does beg the question..if the op has gone from a sxs to an ou.and they generally have a different sight picrure (as people have pointed out above ) how does the client know what he likes to see with no experience  of an ou .? How can he give good reliable info to the gun fitter ? Just a thought ..im not trying to totally poo poo  professional gun fitting. Its just that it seams to me that it could be an expensive way of getting bad info and still not get a gun to shoot where u want  .but ive not had it done for me .as i couldnt afford it  .and prefer  my grass roots approach  .

Edited by Ultrastu
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Thanks for all the replies.

 

I had it 'fitted' when I brought it, by which I mean the owner of the shop, who I've known since I started shooting about 15 years ago, who still makes guns on site, and who's adjusted the stock dimensions on my side by sides to fit, watched me repeatedly shoulder the gun, eyed it up, and then said no alterations were necessary. So perhaps not 'fitted' in the way some of my other guns were, but I have no overt reason to doubt his word.

 

That said, I take into account that it's not fitted to the degree where I have specified the point of aim, et cetera.

 

I've only taken it out twice - once shooting (and missing) a few snipe with steel cartridges choked to full when out after ducks, which perhaps isnt a particularly fair test, and secondly while somewhat hungover, flighting pigeons on Saturday, shooting while crouched in a hedgerow, so again, perhaps not the best test.

I think I'm going to have go at patterning it once I have so spare time on my hands.

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12 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Well ive seen people do it .how does that guy know where the  shooter places the barrel in relation to a bird  ? .i personally have my bird (say on a flat crosser .) Quite a lot above the barrel .i like to see all the bird and never cover it unless its coming directly towards and above me . Thats my sight picture .

My mate is the opposite he covers his bird with his barrels . So his sight picture is different  

Thats nothing to do with the gun its just how we prefer to see our bird  .so he sets his guns up different to me .as a consequence  i cant hit a cows back end with his guns and he cant shoot mine .Though we are similar size and shoot similar guns  .

Like walker says above .you should just be able to pick it up and hit what you want with virtually zero thought as to aiming it  .if your constantly trying to get your head down or over ,or looking at the bead  then your not looking at the bird and the gun doesnt fall naturally or shoot where the eye is looking.

100%   There is so much garbage talked on this subject when it is simple. The gun should become your third arm and the muzzle your forefinger tip. You don't have sights mounted on your finger but I bet you can point with your finger accurately every time.  I have seen so much expensive stuff stuck on barrels and the shooters still can't hit anyhting consistently.

Don't listen to the chatter about, Oh you should buy this gun or taht, go into enough stores and pick every one up your allowed to and run with the one which just feels right.  As said mine is a cheapy little Yilditz O/U but the moment I picked it up I knew it would work for me, it just naturally came to my shoulder and felt like that thrid arm.  Not bragging but a fellow gun a week or so ago, said to my wife..."Does he ever miss?? !!!"   she replied yes he does and it is his fault not the guns.....she knows me too well.

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