sam triple Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 blokes at the place I work at were killed Sunday pm on their bikes ,I didn't know them personally but other people I work with did ,turns out they were out for their Sunday ride when they were hit by an oncoming car that apparently overtook a tractor on a bend hitting the bikes head on ,news states a 17 yr old driver arrested for drug driving , 2 lives lost 2 families ruined not to mention the idiot driving life , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 14 Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 This is where the courts should have the power to make people think and not do this , should be charged with manslaughter and do twenty years ! , then people start to realise don’t do it !two family’s lives ruined ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labstaff Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Unfortunately the sentences for causing death by dangerous driving/drug driving are very weak. As said, drink/drug drivers should be charged with manslaughter. Everyone knows the effects they have and some choose to ignore them. Very sad loss for the families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Sorry but even a death penalty would not work. To even consider the consequences of your actions your brain has to be working. Drugs stops this. Terrible. I feel for the families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Assuming you mean motorcycle and not bicycle then as a motorcycle rider I have witnessed countless occurrences where the rider is a total **** so to play devils advocate here as two riders were involved then perhaps they were rather close together and possibly riding at a fair pace (read racing) and possibly on a bend. I personally know several people who take prescribed Tramadol which will show up on a Police test as a narcotic and therefore be totally innocent of any wrong doing and as a result they will be the victim in this incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthedug Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 You are assuming a lot here Bob. If the op is accurate, regardless of whether the bikes were together or even racing , the driver who took them out was overtaking on a bend. His fault. I wonder what circles you socialise in where a number of them take Tramadol. Whether you are prescribed it or not, if you are impaired and drive, you have committed an offence. You are wrong in your statement. Any evidence of poor judgement or wrong doing whilst driving then you will lose your licence. You proclaim to be a motorcycle rider but are making assumptions here based on witnessing riders being bellends in the past? 2 people have lost their lives and a 17 year old in custody. I am a road user and have witnessed atrocious driving by a number of teenage roadusers but will resist playing devils advocate as I know nothing of this case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arron yeates Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Whata shame sorry to hear of this. Drug /drink driving is totally unaceptable and the outcome by tge courts should be higher however as mentioned above once consumed the substances your brain isnt thinking the same. Not qn excuse. I love my fast bikes and fast cars and when safe to use would however still breaking the law by doing it. Over taling whilst under the influance on a bend... well one word... IDIOT.. doesnt matter what your in. Car or in a bike tge persin behind it is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted February 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Assuming you mean motorcycle and not bicycle then as a motorcycle rider I have witnessed countless occurrences where the rider is a total **** so to play devils advocate here as two riders were involved then perhaps they were rather close together and possibly riding at a fair pace (read racing) and possibly on a bend. I personally know several people who take prescribed Tramadol which will show up on a Police test as a narcotic and therefore be totally innocent of any wrong doing and as a result they will be the victim in this incident. very presumputuous of you, both mature riders one 60 the other 55 riding an Indian and MV respectively you obviously missed the bit about tractor and blind bend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, sam triple said: 2 blokes at the place I work at were killed Sunday pm on their bikes ,I didn't know them personally but other people I work with did ,turns out they were out for their Sunday ride when they were hit by an oncoming car that apparently overtook a tractor on a bend hitting the bikes head on ,news states a 17 yr old driver arrested for drug driving , 2 lives lost 2 families ruined not to mention the idiot driving life , 27 minutes ago, bobthedug said: You are assuming a lot here Bob. If the op is accurate, regardless of whether the bikes were together or even racing , the driver who took them out was overtaking on a bend. His fault. Not necessarily so the driver may have been proceeding with caution and the motorcycles may have been travelling at pace. I wonder what circles you socialise in where a number of them take Tramadol. Whether you are prescribed it or not, if you are impaired and drive, you have committed an offence. You are wrong in your statement. Any evidence of poor judgement or wrong doing whilst driving then you will lose your licence. My social life is none of your concern however several people I know have severe joint pain some though accidents riding motorcycles. You proclaim to be a motorcycle rider but are making assumptions here based on witnessing riders being bellends in the past? No i witness riders being bellends quite often and think about this how could I witness one in the future. 2 people have lost their lives and a 17 year old in custody. I am a road user and have witnessed atrocious driving by a number of teenage roadusers but will resist playing devils advocate as I know nothing of this case. The reason I used the devils advocate term is people are jumping to conclusions who like you also know nothing of this case. 11 minutes ago, sam triple said: very presumputuous of you, both mature riders one 60 the other 55 riding an Indian and MV respectively you obviously missed the bit about tractor and blind bend. No mention of a blind bend in the original post. Sirs you are making the assumptions here. The post clearly states devils advocate so the post is intended to make people consider the alternative possibilities. I maintain that as none of us were there then however unpopular the alternative may be it is always a possibility, btw no one mentioned BLIND BEND in the original post so for clarity it has been quoted. The digs towards my personal lifestyle however are not called for and I think it only proves just how fast you are to jump to conclusions. And to clarify there are certain pain killers which you are permitted to drive whilst they are in effect provided they have been prescribed. Edited February 4, 2020 by sportsbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted February 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Sirs you are making the assumptions here. The post clearly states devils advocate so the post is intended to make people consider the alternative possibilities. I maintain that as none of us were there then however unpopular the alternative may be it is always a possibility, btw no one mentioned BLIND BEND in the original post so for clarity it has been quoted. The digs towards my personal lifestyle however are not called for and I think it only proves just how fast you are to jump to conclusions. And to clarify there are certain pain killers which you are permitted to drive whilst they are in effect provided they have been prescribed. im sorry if I didn't quote blind bend but ,given the fact he was overtaking on a bend should be reason enough to condemn his actions Just now, sam triple said: im sorry if I didn't quote blind bend but ,given the fact he was overtaking on a bend should be reason enough to condemn his actions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) Words fail me Overtaking on a bend (blind or not) on the wrong side of the road, but it may NOT be his fault I wonder sometime what planet people are living on. Edited February 4, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sam triple said: im sorry if I didn't quote blind bend but ,given the fact he was overtaking on a bend should be reason enough to condemn his actions Hi Sam I do see your point and by your avatar I assume you also ride motorcycles so can I ask when you are riding and you see a slow oncoming vehicle do you not think " I wonder if something will pop out to overtake it" and as a result slow down and if possible move to the left a little, I think this every time I see something like that because in the mid 70s I was travelling at about 60 mph quite legally I may add when a Mini did exactly that , the result was my bike A Yamaha YAS3 was embedded in the front of the Mini and I went straight over the roof. Yes in my case the Mini driver was to blame BUT as a result of that I have avoided similar incidents as a result of my heightened awareness and more cautious riding. 8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Words fail me Overtaking on a bend (blind or not) on the wrong side of the road, but it may NOT be his fault I wonder sometime what planet people are living on. Someone else who seems not to understand devils advocate , try to imagine driving down a country road or lane ( I use the term country because you don`t get many tractors in the city ) and there is a tractor in front of you. You pull out a little to see if it is clear to pass and wham thud two motorcycles have hit the front of your car. Was that your fault or were the motorcycles being ridden in a manor not befitting the circumstances. To add to this now assume the driver has dashcam footage which shows the events to be as I have outlined above and it goes to court who do you think the courts will side with. Edited February 4, 2020 by sportsbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, sportsbob said: Hi Sam I do see your point and by your avatar I assume you also ride motorcycles so can I ask when you are riding and you see a slow oncoming vehicle do you not think " I wonder if something will pop out to overtake it" and as a result slow down and if possible move to the left a little, I think this every time I see something like that because in the mid 70s I was travelling at about 60 mph quite legally I may add when a Mini did exactly that , the result was my bike A Yamaha YAS3 was embedded in the front of the Mini and I went straight over the roof. Yes in my case the Mini driver was to blame BUT as a result of that I have avoided similar incidents as a result of my heightened awareness and more cautious riding. Someone else who seems not to understand devils advocate , try to imagine driving down a country road or lane ( I use the term country because you don`t get many tractors in the city ) and there is a tractor in front of you. You pull out a little to see if it is clear to pass and wham thud two motorcycles have hit the front of your car. Was that your fault or were the motorcycles being ridden in a manor not befitting the circumstances. No, I fully understand 'Devils advocate' it's just not applicable in this case. The speed of the motorcycles doesn't even enter into the equation. The car driver made more than one massive error and 2 people are now dead because of his inpatients. It is a simple as that. He obviously couldn't see the road ahead, hence there was an incident. Edited February 4, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthedug Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 51 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Sirs you are making the assumptions here. The post clearly states devils advocate so the post is intended to make people consider the alternative possibilities. I maintain that as none of us were there then however unpopular the alternative may be it is always a possibility, btw no one mentioned BLIND BEND in the original post so for clarity it has been quoted. The digs towards my personal lifestyle however are not called for and I think it only proves just how fast you are to jump to conclusions. And to clarify there are certain pain killers which you are permitted to drive whilst they are in effect provided they have been prescribed. Sportsbob, To clarify, I am NOT having a dig at you or your social life or friends. I am sipmly highlighting that you have stated that you know people who take tramadol and drive or ride. I have assumed that part but as you stated that it would show up on a police roadside drugs test, its a reasonable assumption to make that they are road users. Rather than take the hump, perhaps take onboard that driving or riding a vehicle whilst impaired through drugs, prescribed or not is illegal and not "innocent" as you claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, sportsbob said: <snip> Someone else who seems not to understand devils advocate , try to imagine driving down a country road or lane ( I use the term country because you don`t get many tractors in the city ) and there is a tractor in front of you. You pull out a little to see if it is clear to pass and wham thud two motorcycles have hit the front of your car. Was that your fault or were the motorcycles being ridden in a manor not befitting the circumstances. <snip> Devils advocate is not an excuse to make offensive assumptions and then accuse others of doing the same. As for your scenario, show me the passage in the iam manual that recommends “pulling out to see” so much that you collide with oncoming traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, bobthedug said: Sportsbob, To clarify, I am NOT having a dig at you or your social life or friends. I am sipmly highlighting that you have stated that you know people who take tramadol and drive or ride. I have assumed that part but as you stated that it would show up on a police roadside drugs test, its a reasonable assumption to make that they are road users. Rather than take the hump, perhaps take onboard that driving or riding a vehicle whilst impaired through drugs, prescribed or not is illegal and not "innocent" as you claimed. At least two friends have been prescribed Tramadol another is on morphine patches for collapsed and crumbling vertebrae they have all been cleared to drive by the prescribing Doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, SpringDon said: Devils advocate is not an excuse to make offensive assumptions and then accuse others of doing the same. I don`t believe I made an assumption I believe I merely pointed out a possible scenario which you seem to acknowledge next As for your scenario, show me the passage in the iam manual that recommends “pulling out to see” so much that you collide with oncoming traffic. I don`t have to show you anything but perhaps you could imagine a motorcycle on a bend with the riders head close to or over the centre of the carriageway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, sam triple said: im sorry if I didn't quote blind bend but ,given the fact he was overtaking on a bend should be reason enough to condemn his actions Thanks for the link Sam , the photo gives a better perspective as to the road and the conditions at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted February 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 40 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Hi Sam I do see your point and by your avatar I assume you also ride motorcycles so can I ask when you are riding and you see a slow oncoming vehicle do you not think " I wonder if something will pop out to overtake it" and as a result slow down and if possible move to the left a little, I think this every time I see something like that because in the mid 70s I was travelling at about 60 mph quite legally I may add when a Mini did exactly that , the result was my bike A Yamaha YAS3 was embedded in the front of the Mini and I went straight over the roof. Yes in my case the Mini driver was to blame BUT as a result of that I have avoided similar incidents as a result of my heightened awareness and more cautious riding. Someone else who seems not to understand devils advocate , try to imagine driving down a country road or lane ( I use the term country because you don`t get many tractors in the city ) and there is a tractor in front of you. You pull out a little to see if it is clear to pass and wham thud two motorcycles have hit the front of your car. Was that your fault or were the motorcycles being ridden in a manor not befitting the circumstances. To add to this now assume the driver has dashcam footage which shows the events to be as I have outlined above and it goes to court who do you think the courts will side with. Hi yes I ride a bike and have be close to some dodgey moves by other road users but if you look at the photo you can clearly see they were approaching or had already began to enter the corner (and I understand your point about moving to the left ) but I wouldn't expect a car to be coming the other way overtaking something as wide as a tractor because something that wide even if it were another car would put you on the wrong side of the road THIS thread wasn't started to have a pop at people but to make us all aware of our actions behind the wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 59 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Someone else who seems not to understand devils advocate , try to imagine driving down a country road or lane ( I use the term country because you don`t get many tractors in the city ) and there is a tractor in front of you. You pull out a little to see if it is clear to pass and wham thud two motorcycles have hit the front of your car. Was that your fault or were the motorcycles being ridden in a manor not befitting the circumstances. If you've crossed the centre of the lane then it's your fault, you shouldn't pull out until it's safe to do so, if you can't see then it's not safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, sportsbob said: Devils advocate is not an excuse to make offensive assumptions and then accuse others of doing the same. I don`t believe I made an assumption I believe I merely pointed out a possible scenario which you seem to acknowledge next As for your scenario, show me the passage in the iam manual that recommends “pulling out to see” so much that you collide with oncoming traffic. I don`t have to show you anything but perhaps you could imagine a motorcycle on a bend with the riders head close to or over the centre of the carriageway. No, you don’t need to show me anything (including rationality, it seems). Luckily I can let the courts decide. Good day to you, sir. My sympathies to the victims’ families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 What a tragic story. The comment I'm about to make is in no way making comment on the circumstances surrounding this terrible incident, about which I know nothing, but more and more I find tractor drivers unwilling to pull over and let the built up traffic pass. They seem willing to drive for mile after mile oblivious or unconcerned about the traffic flow behind. Again, I'm not condoning reckless overtaking or suggesting anything about this sad case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog1408 Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 I see Bob doesn't understand the word "irony" either. a sad loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 hello, should get 2 life sentences ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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