410 game loads

[Centrepin]

14 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I ve found similar with lylevale carts also .not very good in 20b and worse in .410 

 

 

The only .410 available locally for me are Lyalvale fibre wads, 2" x 9g #6s, 2 1/2" x 14g #6s and 3" x 18g #6s. 

So far I've only used them on clays, would I be wasting my time on anything live?

[London Best]

Lyalvale Express 14gram in 7 or 9 shot work just fine from my .410. Kill very well indeed.

[Centrepin]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

Lyalvale Express 14gram in 7 or 9 shot work just fine from my .410. Kill very well indeed.

All our RFD stocks in .410 is Lyalvale Express #6s in fibre. 

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

All our RFD stocks in .410 is Lyalvale Express #6s in fibre. 

Get him to order you some 7’s. If he can get 6’s, he can order 7’s. Honestly, small shot transforms a Fourten.

Edited February 6, 2020 by London Best

[Centrepin]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Get him to order you some 7’s. If he can get 6’s, he can order 7’s. Honestly, small shot transforms a Fourten.

I'll ask him, the amount of money I spend in there it shouldn't be a problem.

[London Best]

And don’t let anybody tell you that 14gram of No.9 won’t kill stuff, because I’ve tried it, a lot, and at thirty yards it’s a revelation. Using this load I’ve shot crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, wood pigeon, collared doves and driven partridges. Not used 9’s on pheasants or rabbits.

[Ultrastu]

30 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

All our RFD stocks in .410 is Lyalvale Express #6s in fibre. 

Im not saying that lyalvale carts wont kill .its just that they dont seam to do a very good job of it  .and that a gamebore or Italian  cartridge seem far more effective .especially where distance is concerened .

Ps .i am saying the magnasonic wont kill  . Unless your so close u can poke the creature with your a muzzle .

[Robertt]

Autumn '18 was spotting the tree tops for my son, who was using s Full Choke 410 mossberg  and Lylavale cartridges . 20-30 yards.

Over 6 outings he did 21with 21 shots.

All stone dead with no pellets bouncing off.

Now I know they're c**p

I'll get another brand. 🤪

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Robertt

[Farmboy91]

I've never got on with express in any calibre, obviously they work otherwise they wouldn't be in business. I guess the guns I've owned haven't like them and that's been reflected in the patterns/kills.

[Robertt]

Never found a bad modern cartridge yet.

All more consistent than me.

Suppose we've got to blame something.

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Im not saying that lyalvale carts wont kill .its just that they dont seam to do a very good job of it  .and that a gamebore or Italian  cartridge seem far more effective .especially where distance is concerened .

Ps .i am saying the magnasonic wont kill  . Unless your so close u can poke the creature with your a muzzle .

If Express cartridges weren’t killing for you sir, you quite simply weren’t hitting what you were shooting at.

[Walker570]

12 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Im not saying that lyalvale carts wont kill .its just that they dont seam to do a very good job of it  .and that a gamebore or Italian  cartridge seem far more effective .especially where distance is concerened .

Ps .i am saying the magnasonic wont kill  . Unless your so close u can poke the creature with your a muzzle .

There are far better cartridges available. The Hull High Pheasant fibre 410 is far better in my view and I shoot 410 exclusively all season, 20 plus days and crows and pigeons as well.

I shot a slab of RCs and they also killed well but I was concerned that half the case vanished up the spout as well as the shot/wad so discontinued using them. 

I was hitting pheasant with the Lylevale but they were not dropping for over 100yrds and then often runners. I thought I had missed but my wife and a picker up confirmed I had hit the birds fair and square. 

[London Best]

I do well with Express in Fourten, and twelve bore on driven days all season. This season I tried a slab of Hull Imperial Game in twelve bore. They were very smooth shooting and the gun was easier to clean than it is with Express but, whilst the Hulls killed ok, I didn’t think the kills seemed so ‘decisive’ as usual. 
Birds which drop 100 yards behind were body shot, not in the head/neck.

[wymberley]

32 minutes ago, London Best said:

I do well with Express in Fourten, and twelve bore on driven days all season. This season I tried a slab of Hull Imperial Game in twelve bore. They were very smooth shooting and the gun was easier to clean than it is with Express but, whilst the Hulls killed ok, I didn’t think the kills seemed so ‘decisive’ as usual. 
Birds which drop 100 yards behind were body shot, not in the head/neck.

Barring the inevitable, in the main would you not expect a bird body shot with sufficient strikes to fall dead almost instantly given sufficient pellet energy? I only ask as I'm getting the impression that the 100 yards would be the norm.

[London Best]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Barring the inevitable, in the main would you not expect a bird body shot with sufficient strikes to fall dead almost instantly given sufficient pellet energy? I only ask as I'm getting the impression that the 100 yards would be the norm.

Some body shot birds will fall immediately, yes, but after 45 years picking up on shoots shooting up to fifteen thousand head per year I can assure you that a lot of birds drop dead, or nearly so, often hundreds of yards behind the gun line.  
Even a deer shot through the heart with a rifle bullet will sometimes run quite a distance.

[wymberley]

24 minutes ago, London Best said:

Some body shot birds will fall immediately, yes, but after 45 years picking up on shoots shooting up to fifteen thousand head per year I can assure you that a lot of birds drop dead, or nearly so, often hundreds of yards behind the gun line.  
Even a deer shot through the heart with a rifle bullet will sometimes run quite a distance.

Many thanks.Your answer negates what I was going to say about about the possible cause relating to your comment in the post which I queried.

[Robertt]

I do about 80% clays, for practice and fun with my lads and 20% game.

It's a good teaching tool. On form I'll take the front of the clay off.

If I'm not up to scratch I'll miss or hit the back end and the kids shout ' send the dog in' .

If nothing else it brings home the fact that the main issue, clays or game is not the cartridge but the lose nut at the end of the stock.

I've had great game shooting with Lylvale, Eley and Hull to name a few.

I'm lucky I don't care what cartridge I use and know if I'm off form it's  me.

Confidence in what you're using is very important but blaming cartridges for an off day is a cop out.

Just going to get my tin hat ! 😝

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Robertt

[Walker570]

No need for a tin hat in my estimation Robertt. Spot on.  However my comments on the Lylevale fibre where supported by two people and the incidents too frequent not to have been the cartridge not having sufficent hitting power.  I had two appauling days at the end of the season and couldn't hit a barn door, then a change of clothes on the next day and just did not seem to be able to miss.  Put the bad days down to bad mounting of the gun by me and not taking into account the thicker clothing. Nut at the end of the stock, exactly.

[London Best]

I have just recalled that I did once have a bad slab of Express 12 bores about 1995ish. Two shots left a wad in a barrel. After the second one I returned the rest of the slab to rfd and he replaced the slab. He was going to send them back to makers but I never heard the outcome.

[Robertt]

Had a hang fire on a Paper Eley Grand Prix, circa 1960 ish, rolled turn over, about 12 months ago, but still hit the clay.

Only fired it to sniff the case.

Otherwise never had an issued with any ammo.

My mate had a wad stuck up the spout with a Black Gold with no powder, but I wouldn't write Gamebore off on the strength of that.

A chap I shot with had quite a few ammo issues which were brought on by keeping his cartridges in a cold dank garage.

His browning got jammed with unburnt powder and for 2 drives I shot my birds and his.

He keeps his shells in the house now.

Makes me wonder how many cartrige failures are down to bad storage.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Robertt

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Robertt said:

PERVERT!

Only fired it to sniff the case.

[wymberley]

On 07/02/2020 at 21:29, Robertt said:

I do about 80% clays, for practice and fun with my lads and 20% game.

It's a good teaching tool. On form I'll take the front of the clay off.

If I'm not up to scratch I'll miss or hit the back end and the kids shout ' send the dog in' .

If nothing else it brings home the fact that the main issue, clays or game is not the cartridge but the lose nut at the end of the stock.

I've had great game shooting with Lylvale, Eley and Hull to name a few.

I'm lucky I don't care what cartridge I use and know if I'm off form it's  me.

Confidence in what you're using is very important but blaming cartridges for an off day is a cop out.

Just going to get my tin hat ! 😝

 

What is your preferred point of aim/kill zone when shooting game with these? I ask because I've just been reading something vaguely on this from the USA.

[Robertt]

With me I think it's a concentration issue.

At best I'm hard focusing on the head only. I do not see the barrels and am feeling the lead rather than seeing it.

When I tire or not feeling 100% my concentration levels drop I find myself shooting at bulk of mass and spotting the barrels.

Half the battle is knowing where one is going wrong and I'm getting there....eventually !!

 

 

 

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, Robertt said:

With me I think it's a concentration issue.

At best I'm hard focusing on the head only. I do not see the barrels and am feeling the lead rather than seeing it.

When I tire or not feeling 100% my concentration levels drop I find myself shooting at bulk of mass and spotting the barrels.

Half the battle is knowing where one is going wrong and I'm getting there....eventually !!

 

 

 

Many thanks. Toying with the idea of possibly having a fiddle with one purely for pigeon which for obvious reasons has the potential to have a reduced effective range than that for larger game. Pleased to see that the information gained from our friends over the Pond with their greater experience would suggest that it is worth thinking about as my train of thought coincides with their conclusions.