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wascal

Another pistol left in the loo

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Beggars belief doesn't it?

 

I knew one RAF Police outrider who left his belt rig with Browning 9mm and spare mags in the toilets at a motorway services many years ago.

Re-joined the convoy and his mate noticed it he was not wearing it, so he shot off to return to the bogs and it was still there!

Jammy sod.

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I find it somewhat worrying that we put guns in the hands of policemen trained by other policemen. They should be compelled to accept training from the military.

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15 minutes ago, Westward said:

I find it somewhat worrying that we put guns in the hands of policemen trained by other policemen. They should be compelled to accept training from the military.

Unfortunately the military also have a sketchy record with 'misplaced' firearms

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/29/11-rifles-thousands-bullets-lost-stolen-army-mod-admits-amid/

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15 minutes ago, Westward said:

I find it somewhat worrying that we put guns in the hands of policemen trained by other policemen. They should be compelled to accept training from the military.

Does "military" include thr RAF, see above. :lol:

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42 minutes ago, Westward said:

I find it somewhat worrying that we put guns in the hands of policemen trained by other policemen. They should be compelled to accept training from the military.

What, exactly, would that achieve?

The Military and armed police have completely different missions and should be trained as such.  Conflating military with police is usually a sign of a dictatorship*

*Yes, I'm aware of MPs and MOD Police who exist to police the 'cross over'.

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4 minutes ago, bottletopbill said:

And we get S..t from THEM about gun care and mentoring well who the hell  mentored him and passed him (they are meant to be the elite )  

Ah, but one mans elite maybe another's bungling fool?

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1 hour ago, bottletopbill said:

And we get S..t from THEM about gun care and mentoring well who the hell  mentored him and passed him (they are meant to be the elite )  

I wonder if the officer concerned will face the same sanctions as any of us? What do you think would happen to you/your licence if the police found you had left a loaded gun, propped up against the wall, in the corner of the pub?

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3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

What, exactly, would that achieve?

The Military and armed police have completely different missions and should be trained as such.  Conflating military with police is usually a sign of a dictatorship*

*Yes, I'm aware of MPs and MOD Police who exist to police the 'cross over'.

Nothing to do with crossover of mission responsibility. No one wants soldiers on the streets, but I believe armed police should be given the best training possible before being allowed to carry a weapon in public. History tends to support the idea that as far as the current training methods go, either the candidates or the trainers themselves are too often not good enough.

Go back 6 or 7 years to the incident when an ARU officer was showing his handgun to some schoolchildren (Err why?). Through what can only be described as a virtually criminal lack of responsibility the weapon had a live round in the chamber and the safety was off. The predictable result was that the gun went off, narrowly missing a 13 year old schoolgirl. A couple of years before that a police instructor teaching trainees in a classroom how to handle a pistol safely (!) achieved exactly the same thing with a live round in the chamber and the safety off. He managed to shoot and wound one of the trainees. Let's not forget that the subject of the lesson was gun safety.

The  stats below are from about 10 years ago and perhaps explains why security companies providing guards in places like Iraq simply won't consider employing ex ARU officers as they consider them to be "cowboys".

ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE:

Metropolitan Police 56

Northern Ireland 31

Bedfordshire 3

Devon and Cornwall 2

Lincolnshire Police 2

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I was recently berated by some ex squaddie or other for having the audacity to use the term 'Accidental Discharge'. Having experienced BOTH Police training and Army training first hand, I can see absolutely no merit in Civilian Police being trained by Army,  or even Ex Army personnel. The circumstances and the environment that both are called upon to work under are miles apart.  Can any shooter on this Forum, HONESTLY, hand on heart, catergorically state that they have NEVER had a 'bloomin eck' moment when shooting, because I can NOT. 

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I seem to have trouble getting my point across. The relative circumstances and environment aren't the issue, it's about basic safety, gun handling, muzzle discipline and good practice. All things that should apply whether it's police, MI5, SAS or any conventional branch of the armed forces.

As to the question above: I've reffed at hundreds of clay shoots, participated in hundreds more and out of god knows how many shots I've seen fired - 100s of thousands I should think - I've only witnessed 1 accidental discharge and that was a gun pointing safely downrange.

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2 hours ago, Westward said:

The  stats below are from about 10 years ago and perhaps explains why security companies providing guards in places like Iraq simply won't consider employing ex ARU officers as they consider them to be "cowboys".

not strictly correct-a pal of mine is an ex firearms cop-left and went into oil security in Iraq for protection work-he's now on exec board.he isn't the only ex cop doing it.

f.

 

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4 minutes ago, Fuddster said:

not strictly correct-a pal of mine is an ex firearms cop-left and went into oil security in Iraq for protection work-he's now on exec board.he isn't the only ex cop doing it.

f.

 

Glad it's  nit just me who knows a fair few x armed cops working in places such as irag. I suspect I'm not the only one to know a few "misplaced" shotguns, left on roofs of cars after a round of clays is popular, normally found by the first corner they passed. Perhaps everyone should have army training. Oh yeah there's been a few instances of nd's I witnessed on army ranges too. 

No ones perfect and mistakes happen. 

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Someone left a shotgun on a train near me a couple of years ago , phoned the police when he realised and it got picked up a couple of stations later. I believe he kept his licence after a telling off.

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We’re all human and as such prone to all that being human entails, but carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility whether you’re a civilian or security personnel, even more so to be carrying one in public.
He is paid for his services as a personal bodyguard; you can’t protect anyone from anyone if you’ve left your gun in the bog. 

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1 minute ago, Scully said:

We’re all human and as such prone to all that being human entails, but carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility whether you’re a civilian or security personnel, even more so to be carrying one in public.
He is paid for his services as a personal bodyguard; you can’t protect anyone from anyone if you’ve left your gun in the bog. 

Your quite right and I strongly suspect he will no longer be employed in an armed role. They normally get booted out of there and back to reality which often comes as a bit of a shock. 

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I should think he is likely to suffer worse consequences than us, he'll likely loose his job for that.

As for military training the police, I fail to see how that would improve safety in any way, shape or form.

And as for the stats on accidental discharges, that is different from a negligent discharge.

Negligent = gun went off due to negligent action by the shooter.

Accidental = a huge multitude of situations, but would not deem the shooters actions as negligent, i.e gun malfunction causing round to go off during training, but in safe direction for instance.

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10 hours ago, Westward said:

I find it somewhat worrying that we put guns in the hands of policemen trained by other policemen. They should be compelled to accept training from the military.


Why on Earth would they need training from the military? 
 

Even the way they use firearms is totally different. When was the last time the Police laid down covering fire and just fired in the somewhat direction of the criminal, whilst taking out several civilians as collateral damage? 😬🤣

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22 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:


Why on Earth would they need training from the military? 
 

Even the way they use firearms is totally different. When was the last time the Police laid down covering fire and just fired in the somewhat direction of the criminal, whilst taking out several civilians as collateral damage? 😬🤣

Exactly.  I went through constant monthly training as both a tactical firearms officer and sniper and overall the instructors and instruction was first class. OK the equipment was not always the best but we managed.  

Having said that I do remember a box containing a number of Model 10 S & Ws falling from the open door of a transit on the motorway .... a serious oooopppps.

Regarding Camerons chap, he will be looking for another job me thinks.

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19 hours ago, wymberley said:

Does "military" include thr RAF, see above. 

Steady...

our field skills may not be up to the standard of the army, however, our technical skills and finding the best restaurant/nightclub when deployed into some far region of the planet are way in excess. 👍

Edited by Taileron

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6 minutes ago, Taileron said:

Steady...

our field skills may not be up to the standard of the army, however, our technical skills and finding the best restaurant/nightclub when deployed into some far region of the planet are way in excess. 👍

Standby to deploy to the .......................Hotel!:good:

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12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Standby to deploy to the .......................Hotel!:good:

Absolutely, I have had to stay in some horrible places over the years, some as low as 3 star....I didn’t know the ratings went that low.

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