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Another pistol left in the loo


wascal
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20 minutes ago, Taileron said:

Steady...

our field skills may not be up to the standard of the army, however, our technical skills and finding the best restaurant/nightclub when deployed into some far region of the planet are way in excess. 👍

I have the somewhat dubious distinction of being the last airman relieved from  24 hour guard at RAF Khormaksar in '67. I'd just got back to the block after handing in the Lee Enfield and the five rounds when a shot rang out. The army had taken over the static guard duty instead of only just doing the mobile patrols. Less than an hour after relieving me  the highly trained replacement had got bored and started to fiddle resulting in a round from his nice SLR going through a 50,000 gallon  flexible fuel tank - fortunately  Avtur.

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Some times when bored I have a look at some of the firearms videos from the good old US of A, some are funny from a uk prospective. One I saw was on just this subject of what to do with your firearm when having a dump the advise was to put it in you kecks  as you are unlikely to leave without pulling your trousers up so should notice a glock in your under pants!

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33 minutes ago, Pistol p said:

Lets not forget, this guys boss forgot and left his daughter in pub a few years ago....

You can't be too hard on him for that! There have been times I would of happily lift my son in a pub. Now he's happy to be left in the pub especially when its cold and wet out

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2 hours ago, bluesj said:

Some times when bored I have a look at some of the firearms videos from the good old US of A, some are funny from a uk prospective. One I saw was on just this subject of what to do with your firearm when having a dump the advise was to put it in you kecks  as you are unlikely to leave without pulling your trousers up so should notice a glock in your under pants!

A few years back I was on an overseas job and a USAF Herc arrived. After we had plugged in and shut it down the captain jumped out of the crew door, came rushing up to me and asked for the nearest thunder box, I duly pointed it out. In his haste to remove his flying suit he dropped his personal protection weapon into the brown triangle of doom. We taped a plastic bag onto his arm and he had to “delve deep” into the brown triangle to recover his Sig. We were rolling around laughing whilst he was trying not to thrown up. It later transpired that he was the 2nd most senior USAF pilot on the deployment and he honestly thought we would get it back for him. We educated him otherwise!

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Many years ago at an Armoury in Northern Ireland, a pair of young Officers returned from a bimble and came to the hatch at about 02:00.

The hatch was banged and duly opened, the face of the first Officer was recognised, he was passed two wooden blocks for his ammo and the hatch was shut while he stripped the rounds from his magazines and knocked the hatch to show clear, hand in the rounds and collect his Green Card.

Once this was done the second Officer banged the hatch and was passed two wooden blocks.

After an abnormally long time the hatch was banged again but Officer No2 had no rounds in his blocks!

He had dropped them down the drain below the hatch!

He was told to get them back and the hatch was slammed.

After 5 minutes elapsed he knocked the hatch but still had no rounds. He really thought someone else was going to get them for him! PILLOCK.

 

And as for the USAF, My son and I watched a CH53 Helicopter alight and park up. My son who was 8 at the time ran over to the pilot and asked could he look around?

Captain pointed to a chap on the rear deck and shouted over to show the boy around. We go to the rear deck and my son is enthralled by the M2 1/2" gun.

The chap then unclips his Beretta 92 and gives it to my son.

After two minutes he asks for it back, removes the full magazine and cocks the round out of the chamber and gives the now safe weapon back to my son!

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About 6-8 years ago I was delivering to Castlemartin ranges, when the road was closed. After a diversion, i gets to the main gate and sign in my drop offs and has a chat to the guard who lived local to me and was part of my brothers cadet force.

Anyway it happens that a lorry had come out the gate with 20 odd sa80s, not secured in the racks properly and about half mile up the road he'd dumped the lot on the main road and not realised and carried on. Some one came apon rifles just spread everywhere. I'll see if I can find the story 

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On 05/02/2020 at 19:33, Westward said:

I seem to have trouble getting my point across. The relative circumstances and environment aren't the issue, it's about basic safety, gun handling, muzzle discipline and good practice. All things that should apply whether it's police, MI5, SAS or any conventional branch of the armed forces.

As to the question above: I've reffed at hundreds of clay shoots, participated in hundreds more and out of god knows how many shots I've seen fired - 100s of thousands I should think - I've only witnessed 1 accidental discharge and that was a gun pointing safely downrange.

I am not talking about weapons actually discharging BUT those "OMG" moments when one thinks what MIGHT have occurred. Only last weekend I opened the bolt on a Remmie that had been placed in the gun rack and the owner had wandered off somewhere. I feel sure that there must be many of those moments that you have witnessed at clay grounds, I know that I have.

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Quote

 

ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE:

Metropolitan Police 56

Northern Ireland 31

Bedfordshire 3

Devon and Cornwall 2

Lincolnshire Police 2

 

That would question the training.  The Metropolitan Police managed to have more NDs than the police here, there are more armed officers here and unlike the Metropolitan Police they take their guns home with them, so they have more opportunity for NDs. 

Edited by ordnance
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On 05/02/2020 at 17:06, Westward said:

Nothing to do with crossover of mission responsibility. No one wants soldiers on the streets, but I believe armed police should be given the best training possible before being allowed to carry a weapon in public. History tends to support the idea that as far as the current training methods go, either the candidates or the trainers themselves are too often not good enough.

Go back 6 or 7 years to the incident when an ARU officer was showing his handgun to some schoolchildren (Err why?). Through what can only be described as a virtually criminal lack of responsibility the weapon had a live round in the chamber and the safety was off. The predictable result was that the gun went off, narrowly missing a 13 year old schoolgirl. A couple of years before that a police instructor teaching trainees in a classroom how to handle a pistol safely (!) achieved exactly the same thing with a live round in the chamber and the safety off. He managed to shoot and wound one of the trainees. Let's not forget that the subject of the lesson was gun safety.

The  stats below are from about 10 years ago and perhaps explains why security companies providing guards in places like Iraq simply won't consider employing ex ARU officers as they consider them to be "cowboys".

ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE:

Metropolitan Police 56

Northern Ireland 31

Bedfordshire 3

Devon and Cornwall 2

Lincolnshire Police 2

Where are the links to those stories you've mentioned? 

These threads always make me laugh. Yep the guy ****** up massively and will pretty much definitely lose that position, probably be off that dept. 

I've been on arvs for around 8 years now. Been to hundreds of jobs, fired thousands of rounds (in training) loaded and unloaded multiple guns each and every day I've been on shift. 

I've never seen or heard of any nd's, no one has ever left weapons on a bog cistern or roof of a car. 

All I've seen are highly motivated, switched on individuals that handle and shoot firearms with the utmost safety. 

At the end of the day for whatever reasons he's made a huge error and will pay for it. The way people react here is like every armed officer is a bungling idiot. 

I can tell you that's the polar opposite of the actual truth. 

I'd also hazard a guess that the vast majority of those discharges will probably be on the range in a safe direction or into a proving tube while loading/unloading. The percentage of genuine nd's out in public will be absolutely miniscule. 

 

Edited by Muddy Funker
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8 hours ago, Muddy Funker said:

Where are the links to those stories you've mentioned? 

These threads always make me laugh. Yep the guy ****** up massively and will pretty much definitely lose that position, probably be off that dept. 

I've been on arvs for around 8 years now. Been to hundreds of jobs, fired thousands of rounds (in training) loaded and unloaded multiple guns each and every day I've been on shift. 

I've never seen or heard of any nd's, no one has ever left weapons on a bog cistern or roof of a car. 

All I've seen are highly motivated, switched on individuals that handle and shoot firearms with the utmost safety. 

At the end of the day for whatever reasons he's made a huge error and will pay for it. The way people react here is like every armed officer is a bungling idiot. 

I can tell you that's the polar opposite of the actual truth. 

I'd also hazard a guess that the vast majority of those discharges will probably be on the range in a safe direction or into a proving tube while loading/unloading. The percentage of genuine nd's out in public will be absolutely miniscule. 

 

I can't speak for the school classroom incident.

But the training incident was on the news. The instructor shot one of the officers he was training in gun awareness.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215766/Thames-Valley-police-fined-40-000-gun-expert-shot-man-safety-demo.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7037102/Police-worker-shot-in-training-given-six-figure-payout.html

 

Edited by Newbie to this
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I couldn't find anything about a girl being shot either. 

Probably because it was just something some bloke down the pub said and it never happened? 

I'm not making light of the story you linked to but it happened over a decade ago. Unacceptable but things move on, procedures are tightened up and changed to prevent this sort of event happening. Plus that guy broke the most important and basic of the safety rules. He pointed a gun at someone. 

 

The bottom line though is we're all human and to that end will at some point make a mistake. No one's perfect. 

Keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and finger off trigger gets you most of the way there. 

 

Edit: And of course not leaving your gun on a bog cistern 😂

Edited by Muddy Funker
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