Channel invasion

[spurs 14]

4 hours ago, henry d said:

Small handheld radios can be bought cheaply they have a range of a nm or so and as said the larger vessels pass on the details and log it.

I have no problem with ships going to the aid of people in distress or even migrants taking the **** ! But as I say go help them take them on board sink or confiscate the boat and take them straight back to France ! Do not finish the job of the traffickers and bring them to the uk !!! 

[old man]

3 hours ago, Lord Geordie said:

A few well placed fast attack craft off the beaches of France, and a few small patrol boats in the channel would go well. Intercept the towing vessel and when it cuts loose and heads for home, the fast attack craft can hunt them down and deal with them! ANY boats taken during these types of exercises should be sold off to pay toward the cost of the operations.  All craft carrying migrants returned to the french authorities. It’s time to deal with the problem at source, rather than after the fact! 

Personally not sure that the French would like fast boats from here dealing out in French waters? I bet the traffickers stay well inside the zone?

It suits the French, as they don't want to impede the onward progression of these people anyway?

[Old Boggy]

20 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, no Macron will get all the french fishing boats to blockade us from the french coast

That`s already been mooted to happen if the French and the rest of the EU aren`t allowed to fish in our waters. 

Regards immigration, unfortunately our Border Control vessels always appear to be in Ramsgate & Dover harbours and not being fully utilised for the purpose that they were brought in for.

[TRINITY]

5 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

That`s already been mooted to happen if the French and the rest of the EU aren`t allowed to fish in our waters. 

Regards immigration, unfortunately our Border Control vessels always appear to be in Ramsgate & Dover harbours and not being fully utilised for the purpose that they were brought in for.

Quite honestly they are far more use in the harbour. Once they go out to sea the are just a meet and greet service they are totally pointless and do absolutely nothing other than aide these criminals to make the crossing easier.

 

[Retsdon]

There's a lot of unfair criticism of the French on here. The unfortunate inhabitants of Calais have had to live for years with thousands of these migrants trying for Britain swarming in their town. And the French police have, for years, spent huge amounts of time, resources and effort to deal with the crime, intercept stowaways, etc, etc. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Dover was totally overrun with flotsam and jetsam from around the world trying to get to Calais. On this board, 'Ferry 'em across!', would be the overwhelming sentiment

As for the migration itself - welcome to the modern world. When world populations are rising; natural resources diminishing; wealth inequality increasing; and almost every last person on the planet has access to a mobile phone to see for themselves the difference between their own circumstances and life in Europe or America, then historical level mass migration is inevitable.

To these people Britain is like California was to the poor of Europe two centuries  ago. And as the Native Americans found out, once the tide starts running and critical mass is reached, these historical ebbs and flows are pretty much impossible  to stop.

That's just how it is unfortunately.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Retsdon

[old man]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

There's a lot of unfair criticism of the French on here. The unfortunate inhabitants of Calais have had to live for years with thousands of these migrants trying for Britain swarming in their town. And the French police have, for years, spent huge amounts of time, resources and effort to deal with the crime, intercept stowaways, etc, etc. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Dover was totally overrun with flotsam and jetsam from around the world trying to get to Calais. On this board, 'Ferry 'em across!', would be the overwhelming sentiment

As for the migration itself - welcome to the modern world. When world populations are rising; natural resources diminishing; wealth inequality increasing; and almost every last person on the planet has access to a mobile phone to see for themselves the difference between their own circumstances and life in Europe or America, then historical level mass migration is inevitable.

To these people Britain is like California was to the poor of Europe two centuries  ago. And as the Native Americans found out, once the tide starts running and criertical mass is reached, these historical ebbs and flows are pretty much impossible  to stop.

That's just how it is unfortunately.

 

I infer no criticism on the French, the blame lies firmly with our system that allows and encourages such acts? It's not the people doing what they think best for their circumstances, always the system that permits it to happen that is to blame? 

My personal concern is about the basic economics. Aside from the true humanitarian aid which I fully support how can our overstretched NHS  and  local council services continue indefinitely with a minority funding it? 

There maybe, needs to be a grown up, common sense  conversation and action plan whereby the welfare of the many (allowing for humanity) has more inherent worth than the individuals seen as disadvantaged although having never contributed to our economy? Seemingly this will never be allowed to happen as we continue down the same old path to economic meltdown?

[bobt]

If they didnt have a reason to come, benefits etc, they would not want to come,

[prem1234]

In my mind the majority of these people are not true asylum seekers.....if i was running from my battle torn country (not that we did in WW2) with my family (most migrates are single men !!) I would get to the nearest safe country and put my hand up for help....not live in a camp for months/years in a 'safe' country etc. trying to get into the UK.

I agree with the majority of posts....any boats intercepted should be either sunk or confiscated and the occupants returned to the 'safe' country (France).

[henry d]

59 minutes ago, bobt said:

If they didnt have a reason to come, benefits etc, they would not want to come,

The etc would be a job with good pay then? I`m sure you don`t just think they can turn up and go straight on the benefits system and grab a house while they are at it.

[southeastpete]

So why do they want to come to the uk rather than france, Spain, germany, Switzerland, Poland, Austria etc etc?

because our system and government are the soft option. Poland just won’t take them, I saw an interview with a polish politician once, and the interviewer tried making him out to be racist. He was proud not to let them in and support his own people and what they wanted by not letting them in.

[Pistol p]

It's not going to stop mate, if we keep entertaining the mugs, they'll keep coming.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Pistol p said:

It's not going to stop mate, if we keep entertaining the mugs, they'll keep coming.

I don't think they are the mugs, we are!

[Vince Green]

I believe it to be the case that the French won't take them back under any circumstances. Once they were in that boat, even if they are only a few hundred yards out, that's it.

So that's why we cant just tow them back to France.

Take them to an ex cruise liner anchored off the coast so they are never landed on the UK mainland.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Vince Green

[henry d]

1 hour ago, southeastpete said:

So why do they want to come to the uk rather than france, Spain, germany, Switzerland, Poland, Austria etc etc?

Because that "fact" is incorrect, the IOM survey shows where these people come from, their routes and their intended destinations and the best information is the graphs on pages 9 and 11 especially p.11 as Gt. Britain comes under the heading other as the numbers are low.

[Retsdon]

3 hours ago, southeastpete said:

So why do they want to come to the uk rather than france, Spain, germany, Switzerland, Poland, Austria etc etc?

Language and family/ friends already here.

English is the lingua franca of the world. In German, Spanish or Polish they'd be starting from scratch whereas in English lots and lots of people have a smattering of the basics. 

Immigrants act as a magnet for more immigrants because there is a better self-support system available for new arrivals.

But there are plenty of immigrants in Spain and Germany too. Poland not so many because the wages are much lower. 

[southeastpete]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

Because that "fact" is incorrect, the IOM survey shows where these people come from, their routes and their intended destinations and the best information is the graphs on pages 9 and 11 especially p.11 as Gt. Britain comes under the heading other as the numbers are low.

 So they are all waiting around Calais and crossing the channel to try and get somewhere other than the uk? Hmm

35 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Language and family/ friends already here.

English is the lingua franca of the world. In German, Spanish or Polish they'd be starting from scratch whereas in English lots and lots of people have a smattering of the basics. 

Immigrants act as a magnet for more immigrants because there is a better self-support system available for new arrivals.

But there are plenty of immigrants in Spain and Germany too. Poland not so many because the wages are much lower. 

Poland is because they won’t let them in!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Them Poles are not stupid.

[oldypigeonpopper]

16 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

 So they are all waiting around Calais and crossing the channel to try and get somewhere other than the uk? Hmm

Poland is because they won’t let them in!

hello, no but we let them in with no care to their history, recent case 5 poles convicted of Trafficking in UK and some of those trafficked were put in brothels, other were sent to work and money taken, squalid living conditions and most were from Poland, oh and 1 trafficker was a woman,

Edited February 11, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, the Goverment sent back today 20 or so Caribbean nationals convicted of Crimes in UK, i say we should do the same to all foreign Nationals, would half the prison population, oh it should have been more on the plane but do gooder Human rights Laywers i believe got some spared, this is no Great Britain any more

[Retsdon]

19 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

Poland is because they won’t let them in!

But I thought that was what we left the EU for? So we didn't have to let them in?

The truth of course is that Britain wasn't obliged to let  Eastern European migrants in either in the massive numbers it did . That was a wholly British government decision made by Blair,  and with cross party support from the Tories too. Of course, come the referendum unrestricted immigration made for good anti-EU propaganda but the reality was always that these decisions had been made  - and will continue to be made - in Whitehall and not in Brussels. https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077

But hey, ho. Water under the bridge.

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But I thought that was what we left the EU for? So we didn't have to let them in?

The truth of course is that Britain wasn't obliged to let  Eastern European migrants in either in the massive numbers it did . That was a wholly British government decision made by Blair,  and with cross party support from the Tories too. Of course, come the referendum unrestricted immigration made for good anti-EU propaganda but the reality was always that these decisions had been made  - and will continue to be made - in Whitehall and not in Brussels. https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077

But hey, ho. Water under the bridge.

hello, good read, yes the ************ Blair has a lot to answer for !!!!!!!!!

[Retsdon]

23 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, good read, yes the ************ Blair has a lot to answer for !!!!!!!!!

Careful with the ***s! I got a warning shot across the bows by way of a 2 day lockout for using them. And I was just reporting a conversation and trying to be polite.

[Vince Green]

France deliberately wont document the asylum seekers/migrants they have in their camps because that way there is no paper trail to say they were ever here. I won't say its impossible to claim asylum in France but its pretty close to impossible. You have to fill in a form they are out of stock of from an office that's never open or ring a number that is permanently engaged.

They know the migrants are just passing through so they don't give them any reason to want to linger 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

But I thought that was what we left the EU for? So we didn't have to let them in?

The truth of course is that Britain wasn't obliged to let  Eastern European migrants in either in the massive numbers it did . That was a wholly British government decision made by Blair,  and with cross party support from the Tories too. Of course, come the referendum unrestricted immigration made for good anti-EU propaganda but the reality was always that these decisions had been made  - and will continue to be made - in Whitehall and not in Brussels. https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077

But hey, ho. Water under the bridge.

That's all absolutely true, never thought I would find myself agreeing with Retsdon but Hey ho! as you say

The question for history is why Blair behaved in the way that he did. Its an open secret that he aspired to the European Presidency one day as his next step on the career ladder. Was he trying to improve his image in Europe at our expense?  

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Was he trying to improve his image in Europe at our expense?  

The article I linked to is old, but quite interesting. It suggests that there were sound fiscal reasons to allow the eastern Europeans in, and the government thought that other western countries would see things in the same light. But they didn't  -  largely, apparently, because of trade union opposition  - and so the migrants who might have gone to France, Germany, Holland, etc, but couldn't, all came to the UK instead. 

So it was a miscalculation really, rather than a deliberate policy. At least that's what it says. Governmental blundering - the curse of the British Isles!