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I used to load thousands of 12 bore cartridges using Winchester AA plastic cases with fibre and card wads. Although they never were patterned, I certainly managed to drop a lot of what was shot at, including geese. IF there were 'holes' in the patterns, it was never a problem.

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I have seen some slow mo films of shot strings with plastic wads but not with fibre, but I would doubt that a fibre wad would keep up with the shot after the whole lot left the barrel let alone plough through the shot string, disrupting it. 

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I have some factory Fiocchi  3 inch 18g with roll turnover overshot cards. I will give them a try next week and see the result.  I also have some FOB with overshot cards 20g #9 I'll test one of those as well that light pellet in all essence should show if the card breaks up the pattern.

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how on earth can the fibre wad overtake the lead,they come out the muzzle same speed,air resistance on the wad then slows it down quicker than the shot load,i think the first statement total rubbish.

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33 minutes ago, hawkfanz said:

how on earth can the fibre wad overtake the lead,they come out the muzzle same speed,air resistance on the wad then slows it down quicker than the shot load,i think the first statement total rubbish.

That sounds right to me! The lightweight fibre wad is always to the rear of the shot load! How can it interfere with the shot? I can understand the theory of a card os wad on a RTO shell, deflecting a pellet or two on leaving the muzzle, but even if it is a fact........ I don’t consider it of any great importance!

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Thanks for all the replies everyone , I have three 12g under and over guns and thought I may swap a couple of them for something difference .410 ,20g or even a muzzle loading gun. As the cartridges for the .410 or 20 gauge guns are a little more expensive I thought about the possibility of reloading them then looked into it on Youtube and did a little reading and it did come up a few times that the over shot card can cause a hole in the centre of the shot pattern which made me wonder if that is the case how do Manufacturers do it. From what most of you say this is not the case.

Thanks again everyone.

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4 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

how on earth can the fibre wad overtake the lead,they come out the muzzle same speed,air resistance on the wad then slows it down quicker than the shot load,i think the first statement total rubbish.

I was going to say the same. Apart from my fowling guns where I use cup wads I load fibre and never noticed a problem.

26 minutes ago, BADGER.BRAD said:

Thanks for all the replies everyone , I have three 12g under and over guns and thought I may swap a couple of them for something difference .410 ,20g or even a muzzle loading gun. As the cartridges for the .410 or 20 gauge guns are a little more expensive I thought about the possibility of reloading them then looked into it on Youtube and did a little reading and it did come up a few times that the over shot card can cause a hole in the centre of the shot pattern which made me wonder if that is the case how do Manufacturers do it. From what most of you say this is not the case.

Thanks again everyone.

Get a good usable muzzle loader and enjoy yourself. Great fun and just that bit different.

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Potentially in an over bored gun I would imagine that escaping gasses going past the wad before the seal is made in the forcing cones could disrupt pattern.

It could also be figured on the same principal on a heavy load especially that the wad could be initially moving faster than the payload it is pushing out, and again in an over bored gun push into the botton of of the pay load causing disruption to the pattern.

was this the reason plastic wads were developed with petals? 

Or fibre wads with a plastic disc perform better!

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43 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Potentially in an over bored gun I would imagine that escaping gasses going past the wad before the seal is made in the forcing cones could disrupt pattern.

It could also be figured on the same principal on a heavy load especially that the wad could be initially moving faster than the payload it is pushing out, and again in an over bored gun push into the botton of of the pay load causing disruption to the pattern.

was this the reason plastic wads were developed with petals? 

Or fibre wads with a plastic disc perform better!

Any gasses going past the wad before the seal is made in the forcing cone could only disrupt the pattern by balling,  that is when lead pellets fuse together due to the escaping gasses being very hot. 

Given the wad is behind the shot, how can the wads ever be going faster than the shot? Yet alone initially within the barrel, surly the laws  of physics just do not allow for that.

+1 for Stonepark.

 

Edited by rbrowning2
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2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Any gasses going past the wad before the seal is made in the forcing cone could only disrupt the pattern by balling,  that is when lead pellets fuse together due to the escaping gasses being very hot. 

Given the wad is behind the shot, how can the wads ever be going faster than the shot? Yet alone initially within the barrel, surly the laws  of physics just do not allow for that.

+1 for Stonepark.

 

Physics say the wad is moving before the pellets, if the pellets can then disperse sideways in an open bore then physics says that can happen. 

Like a fast car or train punching through the air the air is forced sideways, not pushed in front but that is very Basic physics!

actually you also agree hot gasses mixing with shot especially soft game shot can cause some fusion disrupting the pattern!

Edited by Perazzishot
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As for gas getting past fiber wads all eley wads measure 750 .try getting a felt wad from your favourite cartridge and push it thro your gun  with a cleaning rod it will be a tight fit.

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1 minute ago, dipper said:

As for gas getting past fiber wads all eley wads measure 750 .try getting a felt wad from your favourite cartridge and push it thro your gun  with a cleaning rod it will be a tight fit.

Nigel Teague is quoted as saying up to 30% pressure lost in over bored barrels with fibre and up to 15% with plastic after he did extensive research.

Hence why as fibre becomes popular and more demanded bores are returning to 18.3/18.4 from the gun manufacturers.

 

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Before we had plastic there were a lot of old guns that

had been lapped out so in fact over bored.In America in the 20s the super Foxes were over bored to 750 some more and they shot very tight patterns.All with felt wads.

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