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Medic1281

Electric cars

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I think if they ever make a 4wd with a motor on each wheel it would out perform any conventional 4wd. And as said, the torque is amazing. The only thing putting me off is the limited range and lack of speed chargers. However, I don’t often drive more than 200miles in a day. 

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I think we will see more and more cars using sustainable fuel instead of diesel and gasoline, not 100% electricity.

HVO is working very well as a substitute for diesel, so does CNG. It will be more expensive however but none or only minor modifications will be needed to existing technology and fuel infrastructure. 

I don't really belive in the public using hydrogen, to dangerous. 

/M

Edited by Nuke

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5 hours ago, figgy said:

I've wondered why hydrogen cars are not more developed. Output of clean water, win win.

Maybe because they know water vapour is worse than CO2 with regards to greenhouse gases. 🤷‍♂️

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5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Maybe because they know water vapour is worse than CO2 with regards to greenhouse gases. 🤷‍♂️

Or that it's a a load of twoddle and they just want to sting you in the biggest way possible for whatever tax they can dream up.

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47 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

Or that it's a a load of twoddle and they just want to sting you in the biggest way possible for whatever tax they can dream up.

Completely agree, it's only ever been about raising money through Taxation.

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3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Completely agree, it's only ever been about raising money through Taxation.

All the 'green' taxes are they same aren't they. 

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The (cough)experts advising the government on green issues and coming up with the crackpot idea to ban fossil fuel powered cars are merely trying to look and sound good to the even more loony extinction muppets and dear little Greta at al. There is no possible way that such a bonkers plan can have any credibility until there have been several quantum leaps in battery technology and said "experts" surely know this. Batteries will need at least 10 times the energy capacity at far less size and weight per KwH, charging times must be reduced by at least a factor of 10 and quite simply, the idea of installing inductive charging in the roads is about as realistic as time travel. Also, they must overcome the problems with relatively rapid battery degradation; something we all know from our mobile phones. Then there will have to a solution to the environmental impact of making - and potentially disposing of - several billion battery packs every year. On top of all that, as mentioned above, achieving sufficient generating capacity for the grid will take at least 30 years, probably much more, and at a cost that would utterly dwarf HS2 and Crossrail added together.

There are tough decisions ahead for the government. Climate change is here and instead of knee jerks like picking on easy targets such as motorists as their "let's look good to the climate hysterics" stunt, they need to be getting proper scientists involved to work out whether or not climate change really is man made. Then - and only then - can they hope to make sensible choices.

Edited by Westward

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On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 16:49, Medic1281 said:

Does any one drive a fully electric car.

Among PW members, the short answer is probably NO, because none of the replies posted so far seems to be based on any sort of personal experience (apart from B725 and the dodgem).

It is hard to find information about range during real-life usage, or with aging batteries.  

Presumably manufacturers will be quoting an expected range for summer daytime driving in flat terrain, but I would also want to know how the range is affected by hills, night driving (headlights), and winter driving while using both the heater (to keep occupants warm) and the air conditioner (for de-misting the screen).

A petrol or diesel car, given reasonable basic maintenance, will give just as many mpg when it is 30 years old as when it was new, despite having had the tank refilled several hundred times.   By contrast, the batteries of my various power tools last fairly well when brand new, but nowhere near as long when they are a couple of years old and have been re-charged a few dozen times.

Inductive road surfaces might or might not be practicable for cities and/or motorways, but will never be economic in rural areas.

Owee correctly notes that the average daily car journey is quite short, but the idea that “…you could always rent a guzzler for that longer trip” might not be appropriate for unexpected journeys, or for any remote location.   Three days ago I was asked, at a few minutes notice, to drive a neighbour on an emergency visit to her critically ill husband in a hospital 70 miles away  --  no chance of arranging a hire car or taxi quickly in this sparsely populated rural area. 

I am not averse to the general idea of buying an electric car, but may well be dead before the technical issues have been resolved.

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McSpredder I feel you are correct. I have got access to other cars for emergency situations. I think for day to day motoring then th etron I’m looking at will be spot on. But it’ll have to be on charge every night. I’m not worried about longevity of the batteries as it’s a lease so will be gone in 2 years. 

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As things stand an EV is a reasonable proposition for commuting or the school run. But, we have 1 son living in Glasgow and another in Surrey, neither of whom has on property parking. We like to visit our sons from time to time and I'm not willing to run 2 vehicles just to pretend to be caring for the planet, nor am I willing to sit in the motorway services for 40 minutes every 120 miles while my Nissan Leaf is charging.

Also let's not forget that 70% of global electricity production uses fossil fuels, and even in this country it's still more than 50%. EVs might not pollute at the point of use but they do contribute significantly to overall pollution.

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1 minute ago, Westward said:

 

Also let's not forget that 70% of global electricity production uses fossil fuels, and even in this country it's still more than 50%. EVs might not pollute at the point of use but they do contribute significantly to overall pollution.

I said this to a colleague the other day, it’s only moving your exhaust pipe from your car to the power station! I’m not too concerned about the environmental side of it, if I was I wouldn’t get one at all. It’s not environmental to dig up cobalt and lithium and ship it around the world just to make batteries. The carbon footprint of the manufacturing of these things must be huge. 
I think I’m just seeing a novel shiny new car that’ll cost less to run than what I’ve already got. 

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19 hours ago, oowee said:

They are running already. In China they use a battery swap. 

It exists now. Inductive put in the road surface to charge as you drive over it. IP is with PWC. 

Go on then so if I bought one I’d never need to plug it in ? Just drive it , I’m tempted ? But just confirm for me how much of the uk road network can do this ???? As I said the infrastructure is just not there at present   

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6 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Go on then so if I bought one I’d never need to plug it in ? Just drive it , I’m tempted ? But just confirm for me how much of the uk road network can do this ???? As I said the infrastructure is just not there at present   

Scalectric did it year's ago, it would never work here as they are always digging up the road or mending pot holes. 

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Just now, B725 said:

Scalectric did it year's ago, it would never work here as they are always digging up the road or mending pot holes. 

Mind you if they were put in charge think of all the cars flying off the road at every bend ! Keep the roads clear ! 

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30 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Go on then so if I bought one I’d never need to plug it in ? Just drive it , I’m tempted ? But just confirm for me how much of the uk road network can do this ???? As I said the infrastructure is just not there at present   

What you actualy said was.  Until technology is found that can charge on the move , 

I was simply pointing out that the technology exists now. 

What we need is a mind shift in the way that we own and use personal transport. 

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4 hours ago, McSpredder said:

......It is hard to find information about range during real-life usage, or with aging batteries.  

Presumably manufacturers will be quoting an expected range for summer daytime driving in flat terrain, but I would also want to know how the range is affected by hills, night driving (headlights), and winter driving while using both the heater (to keep occupants warm) and the air conditioner (for de-misting the screen).

A petrol or diesel car, given reasonable basic maintenance, will give just as many mpg when it is 30 years old as when it was new, despite having had the tank refilled several hundred times.   By contrast, the batteries of my various power tools last fairly well when brand new, but nowhere near as long when they are a couple of years old and have been re-charged a few dozen times.......

 

I don't have a fully electric, but I do have a new RAV4 hybrid (self charging) and a colleague has a Outlander PHEV. 

The Mpg on my RAV4 goes down by an appreciable amount when its heating the car, I actually have a setting that switches it to only heat the driver. The Outlander can warm up by remote control if it's plugged in if you don't do this the mileage suffers but it only does around 25 miles anyway.

Headlights are LED and will have practically no effect they  use 0.05 bhp at most?

As to the reduction in battery life a 4 year old Outlander is worth less than 10k I presume this is because of battery worries.

 

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On 15/02/2020 at 08:53, Farmboy91 said:

I imagine they tow fairly well, juts not for very long, electric motors produce alot of torque. 

Well, they certainly have on here  !   😂

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On 15/02/2020 at 21:25, Dibble said:

I don't have a fully electric, but I do have a new RAV4 hybrid (self charging) and a colleague has a Outlander PHEV. 

The Mpg on my RAV4 goes down by an appreciable amount when its heating the car, I actually have a setting that switches it to only heat the driver. The Outlander can warm up by remote control if it's plugged in if you don't do this the mileage suffers but it only does around 25 miles anyway.

Headlights are LED and will have practically no effect they  use 0.05 bhp at most?

As to the reduction in battery life a 4 year old Outlander is worth less than 10k I presume this is because of battery worries.

Edited by al4x
.

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On 15/02/2020 at 20:21, oowee said:

What we need is a mind shift in the way that we own and use personal transport. 

Please elaborate. How does a mind shift apply when choices are limited by things like budgets and the manifest technical limitations. Anyone can throw platitudes into the discussion but what options do people currently have when it comes to personal transport? Surely, if it's personal then it's not up to anyone else to dictate what form it takes or when/how it can be used.

When someone can convince me with irrefutable scientific proof that carbon dioxide is directly responsible for climate change and that EVs and electricity generation are CO2 free then I'll change my ways. But as long as we have places like the Drax power station emitting 2 tons of CO2 per minute and doing so 24/7 I'll carry living exactly as I do.

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the only way i think the electric car can possibly work in this country is to do what calor gas did standardise batterys and fitment you buy the car rent the battery and filling stations garages super markets have charging rack you drive in the standard battery is removed a fuuly charged unit fitted you pay for the charge and you drive your car till battery gets low on range you could have a recharge facility at home space permitting buut at todays electricity production output  i heard another 17 power stations would need to be built to cope with the demand and the do gooders of society who want petrol and deisel banned are apposing one being built at hincley point so what do we do?????

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47 minutes ago, Westward said:

Please elaborate. How does a mind shift apply when choices are limited by things like budgets and the manifest technical limitations. Anyone can throw platitudes into the discussion but what options do people currently have when it comes to personal transport? Surely, if it's personal then it's not up to anyone else to dictate what form it takes or when/how it can be used.

When someone can convince me with irrefutable scientific proof that carbon dioxide is directly responsible for climate change and that EVs and electricity generation are CO2 free then I'll change my ways. But as long as we have places like the Drax power station emitting 2 tons of CO2 per minute and doing so 24/7 I'll carry living exactly as I do.

A restriction of opportunity in favour of low carbon. Further reductions in the need to travel and the further death of distance. 

For some change will be embraced, for others it will have to be forced.  

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oowee has said  further restrictions in the need to travel and the death of distance   look how many factories have closed in past 40 yrs  where the workforce lived close  by and did not have to travel by car but walked car shared or used other means bus cycle etc the factories shut work went where it was cheaper and people had dive 20 plus miles each way to find work putting pollution up road chaos in the forefront. i give example the A46 near melton is a at a standstill for a time between 7 am and 8.50 am trying to access the M1 almost 12mls of traffic all driving to work. so cutting car usage is not an option unless work is brought back to local level and public transport improved    The school run should be curtailed if you live coseby   Many mums take their kids to school and they live 20 mins walk away this is done twice daily.as regards EV.S if you have pacemaker you cannot drive or work on them it is much the same as not being able to use an airport scanner AND JUST TO ADD   PRACTICAL CLASSICS MAG. WROTE AN ARTICLE LAST YEAR ABOUT DRIVERLESS CARS ELETRIC BUILT BY THE ROAD RESEARCH LAB  a cable was laid under vthe M4 between newburt and reading whe it was built in 1961 3 cars a mini vanguard estate and citroen ds  all picked up power from the cable and travelled between the two points ernest marples transport minister was in one of the cars Aand replied they wont catch on the 3 cars are in the transport museum in london  HOW FAR AHEAD WERE WE AND HOW FAR WOULD WE BE NOW IF WE HAD CARRIED ON

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Just chucking my opinion in here.... I think the major issue is the amount of usage of cars. Where I live used to have a railway back in the 50s, now that railway would have been able to get me into work in the mornings along with most people that go into belfast at various times. But alas it is long gone and the bus doesn't run when i need it. I think the government needs to look at why people won't use and don't want to use public transport. One of the main reasons is cost, it is far more expensive to use public transport from what I've seen...train especially than to commute by your own car. If they upgrade public transport again to the same standards as some of the other big European countries and lower the fares to make it attractive then maybe some people won't use their car so much. Instead they are trying it back to front by trying to up the price of car use to the point where people will pay the rip off rubbish standard public transport fares.... Just think how bad that would end up if the communist(Labour) party has their way and your trains are on strike every other week day and you don't have a car as back up.

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14 hours ago, oowee said:

A restriction of opportunity in favour of low carbon. Further reductions in the need to travel and the further death of distance. 

For some change will be embraced, for others it will have to be forced.  

Which is why there's the annoyance factor that underpins my post above.

Perhaps I'm a lot older than you but I remember a time when we lived in what was pretty much a free country. Well before there were vast armies of bureaucrats whose primary raison d'etre is to find ways to control every aspect of everyone's life.

Example: I grew up in a time when kids knew from the age of 2 or 3 knew that ice and snow are slippery and you can fall down and bang yourself. What we absolutely didn't need was the meteorological office constantly warning us - as they do now - about ice and snow being slippery all through the (much colder) winters.

Call it the nanny state or whatever, but whilst you may be quite happy to accept that Big Brother is better than you are at deciding what's good for you, I most certainly am not.

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