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Medic1281

Electric cars

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6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

There are a whole load more electric cars on the road following the P11D change - this year a wholly electric company car will cost you £0. That’s quite an incentive.

I have to change my work lease car at the end of March and I nearly went electric but my brother who has had A variety of electric cars for 5+ years and who has this year gone back to petrol, swung me not to do it. 

He says the pros are speed and torque and fill up cost, but the pros are outweighed by the whole charging routine and rigmarole, the constant anxiety of running out of juice if you are on a journey of more than 50 miles (which of course is but 25 miles there and 25 miles on the return) and the soulless driving experience. Also, he said to keep your eyes open for what cars you see in the back of breakdown trucks - I’ve been looking and the amount of electric cars is an eye opener given that they amount for probably less than 1% of cars on the road.

I reckon wait 3 years and for the major manufacturers to cycle through 1st / 2nd generation and the country to get better grip of the whole ‘charging away from home’ thing. 

Very interesting!

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Just to add, he said that all the motoring manufacturers lie their backsides off about battery range and in winter if you use headlights, windscreen wipers, heaters, ac, the stereo then it’s anyone’s guess, hence the constant anxiety. He said that until you get one you won’t know 😝

I suppose that if you jump on a train everyday to London and your missus will only use the car to pootle to the shops and her mates during the week then go mad.

Saying that every once in a while (at least once a year) I’ll do a long journey - this May I’m driving with a mate to Italy and back (and yes the route will include an autobahn). No chance of doing that in an electric car. 

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45 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I suppose that if you jump on a train everyday to London and your missus will only use the car to pootle to the shops and her mates during the week then go mad.

But..you can buy a brand new Dacia for £10 k to do that , runs very economically on petrol, or ....a new Leaf for £30 k that does 100 miles on a charge (if youre lucky)

Bear in mind the Leafs batteries WILL need replacing at some point (they are warranted for 5 years) and will cost around £8 k , you can buy a lot of petrol with the difference, if this is the kind of motoring youre doing.

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1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Just to add, he said that all the motoring manufacturers lie their backsides off about battery range and in winter if you use headlights, windscreen wipers, heaters, ac, the stereo then it’s anyone’s guess, hence the constant anxiety. He said that until you get one you won’t know 😝

I suppose that if you jump on a train everyday to London and your missus will only use the car to pootle to the shops and her mates during the week then go mad.

Saying that every once in a while (at least once a year) I’ll do a long journey - this May I’m driving with a mate to Italy and back (and yes the route will include an autobahn). No chance of doing that in an electric car. 

Much the same as they did with the claimed MPG figures, nothing new there!

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On 20/02/2020 at 19:01, udderlyoffroad said:

.  No, the move is more because oil will, someday, be too valuable to burn.

 

 

 

This ^   what a shame its taken so long to get our dependency on oil lessened. imagine what the politics of the world would have been like in the last 50 yrs without the oil dominance of the middle east

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On 19/02/2020 at 16:47, chrisjpainter said:

The notion of banning diesel isn't quite fair. It's more about it being phased out, but it will be done only as alternatives (real alternatives) become available. There are electric tractors out there. Here's John Deere's version (this is from 2017) and the fendt e100 vario. And more will be coming. The problem is battery life. The same thing we were all saying when electric cars started to surface. The original Leaf had a range of barely 100 miles - driving it perfectly. Now that's up to 239. Things get better. 

 

 

Then they could ship all the old diesel tractors to Russia or India. Problem solved

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Look at the ground the JD is working its very light ground, I bet it wouldn't last as long in the wet heavy clay we have round here.

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8 hours ago, Mungler said:

There are a whole load more electric cars on the road following the P11D change - this year a wholly electric company car will cost you £0. That’s quite an incentive.

I have to change my work lease car at the end of March and I nearly went electric but my brother who has had A variety of electric cars for 5+ years and who has this year gone back to petrol, swung me not to do it. 

He says the pros are speed and torque and fill up cost, but the pros are outweighed by the whole charging routine and rigmarole, the constant anxiety of running out of juice if you are on a journey of more than 50 miles (which of course is but 25 miles there and 25 miles on the return) and the soulless driving experience. Also, he said to keep your eyes open for what cars you see in the back of breakdown trucks - I’ve been looking and the amount of electric cars is an eye opener given that they amount for probably less than 1% of cars on the road.

I reckon wait 3 years and for the major manufacturers to cycle through 1st / 2nd generation and the country to get better grip of the whole ‘charging away from home’ thing. 

Full electric and Hybrids are changing the way they are taxed (P11d).From the brief email I got on Thursday re Hybrids and full electric.I understand that as far as Hybrids are concerned from 06/04/20 you now have to report your mileage that the car does before the Engine kicks in.I didnt read it fully re electric as was in a hurry to leave office.

 I will post the temp guidance when I get to work on Monday.Ive got my Surf pro at home so may check it tonight.

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  • from 2020/21 there will be new appropriate percentage rates used to calculate a company car benefit in kind
  • the rates increase from 0% to 37% depending on a car’s emission.
  • SORRY THE % CHART IS NOT IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN SO I CANT POST IT.
  • From 2020-21, within the company car tax regime there will be 11 new bands for ultra-low emission vehicles (ULEVs). This includes a new set of appropriate percentage rates and a stand-alone rate band for fully electric vehicles

    This will support the uptake of the cleanest cars using the latest technology, whilst assisting with the Government’s commitment to improving air quality in towns and cities.

    How customers report the company car is not changing, however from 2020-21 onwards if a hybrid car has a CO2 emissions figure of between 1-50 g/km, they will now be required to provide a cars zero emission mileage.

    • if a hybrid car has a CO2 emission figure of 1-50g/km, you will now need to provide the car’s zero emission mileage. This is the distance in miles that the car can be driven in electric mode without recharging the battery
    • the process of how to report a car has not changed and the PTA(PERSONAL TAX ACCOUNT) will be updated from 6 April 2020 to allow you to enter the new zero emission mileage figure if required
    • you should contact your employer for this information as zero emission mileage is vehicle specific and failure to report the correct figure could lead to incorrect company car benefit in kind being calculated. HMRC do not hold this information
    • your employer should provide you the zero emission figure in miles.
Edited by Davyo

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2 hours ago, Davyo said:

That is a draft table,new appropriate percentage rates for 2020-21 are currently in draft (not actual). The confirmed rates will be available from 6 April 2020

Which is a great way of helping people make informed choices when our cars are on 4 year leases

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52 minutes ago, Dibble said:

Which is a great way of helping people make informed choices when our cars are on 4 year leases

That's why there is a draft table.Changes are happening and government are trying to implement changes as quick as.Actuals will be available from 06/4/20.

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16 minutes ago, Davyo said:

That's why there is a draft table.Changes are happening and government are trying to implement changes as quick as.Actuals will be available from 06/4/20.

I recently leased a RAV4 hybrid not knowing what my tax bill would be in its 3rd and 4th year, I just had to guess that I'd be better off than getting a diesel.

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40 minutes ago, Dibble said:

I recently leased a RAV4 hybrid not knowing what my tax bill would be in its 3rd and 4th year, I just had to guess that I'd be better off than getting a diesel.

I can just give a heads up of what's happening in respect to the way cars, particularly Hybrids and Full electric cars will be charged.As a heads up,to get your mileage in on your PTA as soon as you can after 06/04/20.Its not HMRC's responsibility nor is it your employers.Getting your mileage recorded on your PTA will ensure that you don't underpay any tax due.

 I have just had an unpleasant chat with a guy today who assumed it was his Employers  resonsiblity to notify us of his change of Vehicles.Six different  mid/high end cars over two tax years and he didnt even check his tax code to see there was no deduction for car benefit.This resulted in a total underpayment of £8323.00.One of the benefits  of taxpayers using their PTA to inform a change of car on the day of change.An employer might leave it 3 or 4mths after the event,thus leaving an employee under paying..Or the worst case scenario a P11d in July of the following tax year their employee had a car.

On a personal note,If I had the benefit of choosing a Company car, I'd be picking the cheapest,lowest C02 available. They can be a cracking benifit depending on vehicle. The tax charge is way way cheaper than purchasing on finance considering most comp cars come free of servicing/road tax/ tyres and insurance to pay for.

Edited by Davyo

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Electric cars are fine for fixed routes like to work and back.  But until you pull into a station and a robot exchanges the battery instead of charging it won’t be viable. 

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On 22/02/2020 at 18:53, B725 said:

Look at the ground the JD is working its very light ground, I bet it wouldn't last as long in the wet heavy clay we have round here.

Boy's land as my farming friend from the Bedfordshire clay, calls it.

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When the battery is the size of a mobile phone and as easy to plug in they will be ok. Until then it's a huge cost for limited lifespan and range. I do a 100 mile round trip, was 170, no charging points anywhere on route. No easy way to place one at home either. Previous role I have driven over 400 miles a day, 3 or 4 days a week. Easily. No charge points. No buses or trains either. 

I do like the sound of the hydrogen fuel cell. Honda made one that used just hydrogen like a combustion engine as I said before. 

The li-on fuel cells are only as popular as promoted by The government's, with their funding. They won't advance much further given their limitations (size/power/cost). 

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16 hours ago, GingerCat said:

When the battery is the size of a mobile phone and as easy to plug in they will be ok

Yessss !

Image result for mr fusion

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On 27/02/2020 at 17:58, GingerCat said:

I do like the sound of the hydrogen fuel cell. Honda made one that used just hydrogen like a combustion engine as I said before.

Hydrogen fuels cells claim to be non polluting. True in the sense that they don't emit toxins, but they do emit water vapour which is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and lets not forget that CO2 isn't a toxin either!

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19 minutes ago, Westward said:

Hydrogen fuels cells claim to be non polluting. True in the sense that they don't emit toxins, but they do emit water vapour which is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and lets not forget that CO2 isn't a toxin either!

It does cycle through the atmosphere very quickly unlike co2 that last 100s of years.  c02 increases does directly effect the rate of water vapour in the atmosphere due to evaporation. Co2 may not be a toxin but it will displace o2 and create a toxic atmosphere. 

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2 hours ago, GingerCat said:

It does cycle through the atmosphere very quickly unlike co2 that last 100s of years.  c02 increases does directly effect the rate of water vapour in the atmosphere due to evaporation. Co2 may not be a toxin but it will displace o2 and create a toxic atmosphere. 

It's a myth created by the hysterics that CO2 lasts 100s of years. There is a constant planetary process of both absorption in various ways and also release of CO2, most of which BTW does not come from transportation. It's been roughly in balance for millions of years which is why CO2 is still an infinitesimally small proportion of the atmosphere. Water vapour however is now at more than 3000 times the level in the atmosphere as CO2 and increasing.

The unfortunate truth that no one dares to state publicly, is that the global population explosion is by far the biggest threat to the planet, and if climate change really is man made, we need something to come along to reduce the human population by about 3/4.

I recommend you to read "Climate Change: The Facts" which is an objective study available for Kindle and written by real scientists.

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The company i work for have an electric van-a Nissan and i have used it for a bit.

Bad points On a full charge it has a range of only 140 miles........that's without running lights, heating or aircon or radio and it takes all day to charge.

Good points Its very very very smooth to drive with no engine vibrationsits nippy (i even got the traction control flashing at one point), deathly quiet-(think of a 70's milk float while wearing ear muffs.

Its no use for me to use as a works vehicle as it would be flat in half a day.

Look at that motor under its bonnet! 

20200104_112317.jpg

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I'm not ideologically opposed to electric vehicles. Clearly there are applications where it makes good sense such as milk floats or inside use in distribution/industry/agriculture. I am however opposed to the ideology that everyone must convert to EVs, sooner rather than later, whether they want to or not, and without regard to the almost impossible practicalities or to individual needs and usage patterns. I would be perfectly happy to use an EV for local runs such as shopping or picking up the grandson from school etc. However, last Friday on a teeming wet, chilly winter day, we drove to London to visit one of our sons . The thought of using an EV in such conditions, knowing that it was close to the range limit, with no off street parking at the house and therefore no way to charge it, leaves me wondering how on earth kowtowing to the Thunbergistas and banning IC engines can possibly happen without bringing the entire country to it's knees.

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On 26/02/2020 at 10:51, NoBodyImportant said:

Electric cars are fine for fixed routes like to work and back.  But until you pull into a station and a robot exchanges the battery instead of charging it won’t be viable. 

Already exists. 

 

Google Nio battery swap. Currently only in China but EVs are in their infancy and development is moving fast. 

 

There is a lot of misinformation about EVs out there, both positive and negative. Most of the negatives are being solved and some are just myths. 

 

I have been guilty of perpuating a lot of a lot of these myths as I had a very sceptical view of EVs . Ironically, in the process of fact-checking my opinions, I’ve come to realise that there are a lot of smart people and a lot of money working to advance the tech. It’s much more advanced than I had realised, though consumers won’t see the “petrol/diesel parity” for a few years yet.

 

I don’t own an EV but now I find myself looking forward to the day when I do. I’m not really sure why I was so entrenched in my opposition to them now.

 

 

 

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