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Medic1281

Electric cars

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20 minutes ago, Bangbangman said:

 

I don’t own an EV but now I find myself looking forward to the day when I do. I’m not really sure why I was so entrenched in my opposition to them now.

I can fully understand that point of view. Having worked on the UK roll out and strategy for EV's and with Nissan on the Leaf I am also a convert.  looking forward to the day I get one too. 

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26 minutes ago, oowee said:

I can fully understand that point of view. Having worked on the UK roll out and strategy for EV's and with Nissan on the Leaf I am also a convert.  looking forward to the day I get one too. 

My employer approved my order today, so hopefully won’t be long until I get mine. I fully understand that it’s not the answer for everyone at the moment. But it makes sense financially for me at this moment in time! I can’t wait!

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Posted (edited)
On 18/02/2020 at 12:23, udderlyoffroad said:

.

The biggest failure with this policy of not selling any new internal-combustion engine cars from 2035, is that the government has no strategy for where the extra required generation capacity will come from.  So, for instance, a network of large batteries all wanting charging at night means we could finally get away from the appalling waste of money that is subsiding wind farms not to put energy into the grid.
 

Interesting you should say that.

 

The Octopus Agile tariff (already available and in use) tracks wholesale electricity prices and this is reflected in the price the consumer pays for electricity.

 

Because the grid, and particularly wind power, often has a surplus at off-peak times (night), Octopus actually pays the consumer to charge their EV (or run tumble dryer, or charge power wall etc.) 

 

Furthermore, VTG (vehicle to grid) can allow owners of EVs and powerwalls to charge cheap (night) and then sell back to the grid at high peak (4-7pm, for eg.) Likewise using car to power house at peak time, avoiding high tariff from grid, then charge car at night. Those who have solar can combine EV battery, power wall (which may in future use repurposed EV batteries) and VTG to flex their energy use to improve self-sufficiency or just minimise costs.

 

These scenarios do not require the owner to run back and forth, plugging in cars and setting timers, the tech and software already exist.

 

There is huge potential already and yet we are only on the bottom rung of the ladder. 

 

Re-read this thread in 10years, maybe even 5 years. I think it will be amusing, unless we all got killed-off by Coronavirus.

 

For those who talk about cobalt, lithium, shifting pollution, hydrogen is better, slow charging, limited battery life, battery-swap doesn’t exist yet, etc...

...do a bit of digging and test your opinions. Lies and misinformation are being spread by all “sides” but the most honest/least dishonest seems to be the pure electric option (as opposed to the “self-charging hybrids” and hydrogen/hydrogen fuel-cell options). 

 

While the naysayers stand stand on the sidelines, sniping and moaning, the visionaries and smart investors (look at Tesla stock/company value)  are quietly getting on with proving them wrong. 

 

Flight will be a big hurdle, which is why I’m all in favour of any non-oil based fuel for vehicle use: we are going need the remaining oil for planes. 

Edited by Bangbangman

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30 minutes ago, Bangbangman said:

Google Nio battery swap. Currently only in China but EVs are in their infancy and development is moving fast.  .....  There is a lot of misinformation about EVs out there, both positive and negative. Most of the negatives are being solved and some are just myths.  .....  I’ve come to realise that there are a lot of smart people and a lot of money working to advance the tech. It’s much more advanced than I had realised, though consumers won’t see the “petrol/diesel parity” for a few years yet.

I think you are almost certainly quite correct, but I wouldn't dream of buying an electric car at the moment -- if the technology develops as promised, anybody who can wait a couple of years should be able to buy a vehicle that is much better and much cheaper than today's offerings.   The smart people that you mention will make a great deal of money for themselves, and won't need my contribution.   If EV technologies diverge, some customers may discover they have bought into a "dead end" system (a bit like VHS/Betamax).

EVs may suit a lot of city dwellers and commuters, but banning the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles will impose maximum inconvenience and financial burden on locations that have the minimum atmospheric pollution (remote communities and rural areas).    Doesn't seem a very bright idea from the point of view of national economics, just virtue-signalling by politicians.

 

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2 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

I think you are almost certainly quite correct, but I wouldn't dream of buying an electric car at the moment -- if the technology develops as promised, anybody who can wait a couple of years should be able to buy a vehicle that is much better and much cheaper than today's offerings.   The smart people that you mention will make a great deal of money for themselves, and won't need my contribution.   If EV technologies diverge, some customers may discover they have bought into a "dead end" system (a bit like VHS/Betamax).

EVs may suit a lot of city dwellers and commuters, but banning the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles will impose maximum inconvenience and financial burden on locations that have the minimum atmospheric pollution (remote communities and rural areas).    Doesn't seem a very bright idea from the point of view of national economics, just virtue-signalling by politicians.

 

I think we can all agree that the motives of politicians are not necessarily transparent nor in the best interests of the average member of the public. They also tend to have city-centric views.

 

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9 hours ago, ditchman said:

scalelectrics.....................upsize them

 

sorted

 

But they'd keep flying off at the corners!.

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3 minutes ago, 243ack said:

 

But they'd keep flying off at the corners!.

im not worried about the corners its the chicane's...........you know how many muppets there are about..

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11 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

Interesting you should say that.

The Octopus Agile tariff (already available and in use) tracks wholesale electricity prices and this is reflected in the price the consumer pays for electricity.

Because the grid, and particularly wind power, often has a surplus at off-peak times (night), Octopus actually pays the consumer to charge their EV (or run tumble dryer, or charge power wall etc.) 

All very interesting, but given the incredibly botched roll-out of "Smart Meters" in the UK, I'm going to let the early adaptors take the hit on this one, as the level of ear ache if it goes wrong won't be worth the saving.  Octupus' own website even states the following:

Quote

Agile Octopus is a cutting edge innovation created by Octopus's unique technology. Unlike products available from other companies, it relies on a smart meter system (which as our Founder Greg explains here, is not always fully reliable). Some customers have experienced delays. However, of the thousands of customers on these smart tariffs, the vast majority are now experiencing smooth service.

Hardly a ringing endorsement

 

11 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

Furthermore, VTG (vehicle to grid) can allow owners of EVs and powerwalls to charge cheap (night) and then sell back to the grid at high peak (4-7pm, for eg.) Likewise using car to power house at peak time, avoiding high tariff from grid, then charge car at night. Those who have solar can combine EV battery, power wall (which may in future use repurposed EV batteries) and VTG to flex their energy use to improve self-sufficiency or just minimise costs.

These scenarios do not require the owner to run back and forth, plugging in cars and setting timers, the tech and software already exist.

Yes, and the average UK electrical installation is woefully under-prepared to take advantage of all this tech.  Have Tesla managed to produce a UK-compliant powerwall yet that will allow for use during power outages (and not fry linesmen due to 'islanding')?

Hence my statement above re becoming a sparkie, good time to get into that trade, the affluent chattering classes who can afford all this tech will need to have it installed professionally.

Further, it's all very well when a few early adopters do it, but will the tech truly scale, or will we just get into different demand cycles?  If 'everyone' wants to charge at night, the laws of supply and demand will still apply.

 

11 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

While the naysayers stand stand on the sidelines, sniping and moaning, the visionaries and smart investors (look at Tesla stock/company value)  are quietly getting on with proving them wrong. 

The market valuation of a company seemingly does not reflect things like a viable business model, profitability (not just turnover!), etc.

And where are the products?  Tesla seemingly develops cars that only appeal to the US market, and the much vaunted big rig seems to have been quietly canned, possibly due to Newton and his annoying physics.  The pickup will surely follow, or at least bare little resemblance to the carbuncle that was shown at the press junket.  It meets very little of the US regs, and as for European Type approval....

Don't get me wrong, I look forward to practical EV's.  I've already run the wiring for a charge point when the drive was paved last summer.  But for now a diesel pick up truck is parked on it, as I don't have £45k+ to pump into a Tesla.

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14 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

While the naysayers stand stand on the sidelines, sniping and moaning, the visionaries and smart investors (look at Tesla stock/company value)  are quietly getting on with proving them wrong.

When has Elon Musk ever done anything quietly?!

On a serious note though, my parents, being in the luxurious position of being able to afford two cars comfortably, have just boutght a new Leaf in replacement of their Volvo V70. They were going to replace it anyway, so it wasn't a sudden extra purchase. They have a labrador and a jack russell and a Freelander. They've simply changed their driving habits. All local journeys - shopping trips, dog walks, weekend town trips, church etc. - get done in the Leaf. Then the freelander gets used when they do a long journey (holidays, visiting family) when the diesel range is useful, or for when the car is crammed with people, stuff and dogs.

It works perfectly. At no point are they stressed about range, and it's proving so much cheaper to run than the V70 was - even though the Volvo was brilliant for fuel economy. They can do a run to my sister and bro-in law and back in the Leaf - 140 mile round trip.

They just pick the right tool for the right job.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

Interesting you should say that.

The Octopus Agile tariff (already available and in use) tracks wholesale electricity prices and this is reflected in the price the consumer pays for electricity.

Because the grid, and particularly wind power, often has a surplus at off-peak times (night), Octopus actually pays the consumer to charge their EV (or run tumble dryer, or charge power wall etc.) 

Furthermore, VTG (vehicle to grid) can allow owners of EVs and powerwalls to charge cheap (night) and then sell back to the grid at high peak (4-7pm, for eg.) Likewise using car to power house at peak time, avoiding high tariff from grid, then charge car at night. Those who have solar can combine EV battery, power wall (which may in future use repurposed EV batteries) and VTG to flex their energy use to improve self-sufficiency or just minimise costs.

When we were looking at smart grid and future eco house design the feasability of using EV batteries as high value back up to the grid was explored and tested with Western Power and Nissan. Whilst it certainly works the cost of the battery recycle outweighed the value of the power in the battery to the grid. The batteries have a recycling life span. Every time they are cycled reduces life span. This was a key issue for projected battery life, when linked with range anxiety. Owners who plug in as soon as they get home (just in case they might need it) eat into the cycle life span of the battery, when they could alternatively use the battery for several journeys without charging.

I am sure that as the life span of the batteries is better understood (particularly those with cooling systems) this would become an option. 

Edited by oowee

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18 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

I don’t own an EV but now I find myself looking forward to the day when I do. I’m not really sure why I was so entrenched in my opposition to them now.

You stopped wearing that tin foil hat didnt you ..?

They have you now, veganism next ..:w00t:

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4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You stopped wearing that tin foil hat didnt you ..?

They have you now, veganism next ..

Wash your mouth out! 

Greta would weep at the three freezers I run for game meat! 

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