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Boundary issue


scolopax
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After reading threads on boundary disputes in the past I now find myself with similar problems.

my neighbour has told me he is going to replace the old Hawthorne hedgerow between our properties with a new timber fence, i have no issue with this as the hedge is his , and is old and tired, probably same age as the properties, circa 100 years. Only 20 yards or so of hedge, my drive runs along one side, he has lawn on his side.

Now today he informed me that his deeds show he has a 50 ft frontage and he will put the new fence up to conform with this, but this pushes his boundary  at least two foot across from the base of the hedging plants and will severely impact on my driveway and access to same. He said that my gate post was actually within his ‘property’, and today took it down without my prior consent. 

So in summary we have an old established boundary been pushed across to conform with what he says are on his deeds, impinging on drive way and access to same

 

So PW, what should my first steps be? 

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First stop is check your own deeds IMO. A previous owner may have been considerate enough to plant his hedge well inside his boundary. You need to know for sure rather than fall out about it. Gate posts may have been done to suit the layout with mutual agreement.

Edited by Dave-G
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6 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

Regardless of what's in the deeds if things have stood as they are on the property for a long time you may be entitled to retain that ground and tell him to go whistle Dixie. I don't quite think it is squatters rights but it's something similar

I was thinking similar, this is a very old established boundary, do the actual deeds supercede the long term ‘practical’ boundary?  I guess I need to speaking to a solicitor ASAP 

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9 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Solicitor every time. Deeds are rarely (if ever?) that accurate and if your boundary has been established for a number of years its yours. 

Whatever, you need proper advice not opinion

As said.  Boundary disputes can not make friends easily so through a solicitor is the best way.  Keep calm and give no excuse for him to suggest any anger on your part. 

 

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I had this issue about 10yrs back when the house next door sold.House's where built in 1935 and we found out that the boundaries have a bit of a tolerance.

 The new halfwit neighbour next door argued over 8inches.Fence had been up for 30yrs and gave he gave me chew for about 2 years.m,quite heated at times.I finally got that sick I got a friend (solicitor)to tell him to take a foot as long as he signed a declaration to never bother me again.

 If I hadn't had my certs at the time the only foot he'd of got,would of been mine,right in the mouth!

Now I dont shoot, I'd happily give him a slap!

Edited by Davyo
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2 minutes ago, Davyo said:

I had this issue about 10yrs back when the house next door sold.House's where built in 1935 and we found out that the boundaries have a bit of a tolerance.

 The new halfwit neighbour next door argued over 8inches.Fence had been up for 30yrs and gave he gave me chew for about 2 years.m,quite heated at times.I finally got that sick I got a friend (solicitor)to tell him to take a foot as long as he signed a declaration to never bother me again.

 If I hadn't had my certs at the time the only foot he'd of got,would of been mine,right in the mouth!

Did you let him take the foot .then make him take it all down to get your 4 inches back  ? That would have been funny  

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If you have used this land, openly, without permission and without payment of even a token sum, then after seven years of you having done that he loses title to it as he hasn't enforced his rights. Which can be by telling you during that time to "get off my land" or by giving you permission or by charging you rent of even 50 pence. See a solicitor. My opinion is that he's on the losing end of the argument. You MUST seek legal advice pronto.

48 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

Regardless of what's in the deeds if things have stood as they are on the property for a long time you may be entitled to retain that ground and tell him to go whistle Dixie. I don't quite think it is squatters rights but it's something similar

What he says.

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Just now, Ultrastu said:

Did you let him take the foot .then make him take it all down to get your 4 inches back  ? That would have been funny  

I'm gonna let it out in 5yrs time lol.So payback, & I dont care who they are as long as they pay the rent.They can keep a horse in the garden if they want and a scrap van on the drive.

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In my simple understanding you cannot ‘lose a title’ through occupation by another party. Over time a party can establish an easement through use.

Land registry plans are a record of the physical boundaries and have a significant margin of tolerance. We occasionally act in disputes (of much larger parcels of land). Generally there are no winners, only us professionals. What we advise to do is flag a dispute but settle amicably.

Further reading:

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

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12 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

In my simple understanding you cannot ‘lose a title’ through occupation by another party. Over time a party can establish an easement through use.

Land registry plans are a record of the physical boundaries and have a significant margin of tolerance. We occasionally act in disputes (of much larger parcels of land). Generally there are no winners, only us professionals. What we advise to do is flag a dispute but settle amicably.

Further reading:

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

About twenty years ago the law was very different, adverse title (aka squatters rights) meant you really could claim title of land if you could prove you had been using it for a number of years. Key word here is using.

However a number of scammers saw this as a get rich scheme and set about claiming land by dirty tricks and stealth. So the law was changed

Land registry records rarely if ever contain dimensions so there lies the devil in the detail. Right of way is another consideration 

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Thanks for the update on the law. I did my Common Professional Examination in Law thirty years ago and, in truth, hated Land Law! So I'm happy to be corrected. What I think we might all agree on is see a specialist in this and not an everyday solicitor whose knowledge of this is , like my knowledge, out of date and imprecise.

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Look after your certificates, an argument with a neighbour is sufficient for the plod to take them for ''safe keeping ''  I know of 2 people this has happened to. Do it all through a solicitor, don't get your hands dirty, it's worth paying for peace of mind. Not sure about the squatters rights touch, I don't think it stands by law.

Land Registry boundaries are often 6'' either way. 

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Good advice Enfield. 

I have one client who has split a slither off his title where is adjoins a neighbour who has stolen some land and refused to pay the valuation of it. The neighbour moved the fence a few foot at the rear of my client’s enormous garden. Apparently our client has registered a dispute with Land Registry between the neighbour’s title and the slither to cause nuisance if or when his neighbour sells.
 

If I could have redacted enough information I would have posted it up here, it must be 0.05% of his land. It is crazy and will no doubt have cost a few hundred pounds to file the TP1. We provided the legal plan FOC as he’s an existing client, but advised him to just speak to his neighbour face to face again not through solicitors as it would just cause more upset with no reward. But he’s happy nonetheless. 
 

My wife’s father was a barrister then a judge. His favourite case was that between two Welsh farmers spending many thousands arguing over a boundary in a ditch “out of principle”. 

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I have heard this a few times in the surrounding villages. Mainly with new neighbours moving in and wanting to re do a drive or add one instead of done if the front garden. 
 
as said boundaries tend to be very fluid and usually run along natural lines for ease of use and rarely confirm to deeds unless it’s a physical hard barrier or a relatively modern house. 
 

Depending on your persuasion think of it as a new fence.  
 

as has been said professional advice is probably called for but probably won’t be cheap. 
 

you can download a copy of his deeds and plans for under £10 online. And also yours if you don’t have them.  Maybe money well spent as it may show and or list what he is referring to. 
based on your view you can go forward from there. 
 

this May save a lot if ill feeling if he is infact correct. 

Edited by ph5172
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