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Mungler

ANPR

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So, not that long ago I was sniffing for info about bollards because of local vehicle thefts. Well the bloke 6 doors up the road has had his new 4x4 stolen off his drive last Tuesday at 1 am. The thieves appear to have arrived in a Tesla 3 with moody plates.

In all the Esso garages they have a number plate recognition system - if your car number plate doesn’t stack up (tax, mot, vehicle registered etc) then the pump auto locks and you can’t get fuel even if paying by cash. Not sure if the tech stretches to matching plate to car or car colour though.

The tech seems simple enough - OCR the plate, quick handshake with DVLA or whatever Database sits behind the ASK MID  System.

If you operate a private car park you can licence a commercial system - they’re everywhere now.

Anyone got any experience of these systems and could I run one at home? My house is at the top of a cul de sac and recording everything coming in and out of the close could be easily captured.

Needless to say police say they’re giving up on the missing car now 😝 

Edit

I should add that the cars going missing in a cul de sac will have to be scoped out first to be targeted. Just having a record of who has been in and out of the road will be a good start 

Edited by Mungler

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He should have fitted a crook lock. The new fangled electronic cars are the easiest to steal.

Best keep your good cars out of sight and run a banger. It won't get taken.

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Nice one Gordon - the link at the bottom of the amazon page to ‘what people bought’ has a couple of rated products in the hundreds and not the thousands.

 

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10 hours ago, Mungler said:

So, not that long ago I was sniffing for info about bollards because of local vehicle thefts. Well the bloke 6 doors up the road has had his new 4x4 stolen off his drive last Tuesday at 1 am. The thieves appear to have arrived in a Tesla 3 with moody plates.

In all the Esso garages they have a number plate recognition system - if your car number plate doesn’t stack up (tax, mot, vehicle registered etc) then the pump auto locks and you can’t get fuel even if paying by cash. Not sure if the tech stretches to matching plate to car or car colour though.

The tech seems simple enough - OCR the plate, quick handshake with DVLA or whatever Database sits behind the ASK MID  System.

If you operate a private car park you can licence a commercial system - they’re everywhere now.

Anyone got any experience of these systems and could I run one at home? My house is at the top of a cul de sac and recording everything coming in and out of the close could be easily captured.

Needless to say police say they’re giving up on the missing car now 😝 

Edit

I should add that the cars going missing in a cul de sac will have to be scoped out first to be targeted. Just having a record of who has been in and out of the road will be a good start 

You might want to look into the legality of using one. Looking at private property it wouldn't be an issue, but looking at a public road it may well be. I would think you would need the appropriate permission from the council.

You would be not only logging the coming and going of the criminals, but logging everyone. Data Protection Act nightmare.

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If your in a cul-de-sac and there have been multiple car thefts, can you not approach the council to have the road trines into a private one, and as such have a security barrier installed? Just a thought! 

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As above:

1. GDPR? I will await Contact from the GDPR police - I hope they don’t kick in my front door at 3 am for a list of the vehicles traversing the cul de sac.

2. physical barrier on road on at individual property level is just aggravation - coming, going, post, milk, deliveries, guests etc. Don’t get me wrong, if I lived in SW1 and my neighbours were all rich Arabs we’d deffo be having the whole man in a hut at the top of the road by now 😝

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A good quality cctv camera would also do the trick? A proper ringer vehicle will fool anpr and all the database checks, it takes a VIN check to identify.

For example- take two black 2012 Vw Golfs put the same plate on both cars. As long as one is in tax, mot and insured then so is the other vehicle to the anpr camera. 
 

At the of the day you’ll stick have footage and a number plate just might not cost you as much.

Edited by Rossco89

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You should have no issue with the retention of number plates. They are overt markers displayed for the purpose of identification but hold no physical identity data. 
 

You would reasonably expect your number plate to be seen on the road so no issues there   
 

it becomes a different story depending on how you use that data that is collected  

if you were to ‘monitor’ peoples movements you would probably fall foul  

same with retention of data - 28 days rings a bell , and who has access and for what purpose?

would you not be better off just using CCTV and then getting the numbers run if you ever needed too?

signage seems to work wonders. A couple of higher quality ANPR signs on lampposts and street signs and some CCTV cameras may be enough. 
 

google earth seems to be the preferred method of eyeing up property, cars and access  - not so much the old drive by  

if they did use moody plates anpr would be as much use as cctv 

 

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ANPR is only as good as the number plate on the car it sees, wether its your one or my one. Number plates are easily removed and refitted. And  are easily negated by an errant "Green, bag for life" carrier bag that can get stuck over either back or front plates. 
Keep Britain tidy etc...

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ANPR  and CCTV used on domestic premises are exempt from the Data Protection Act, even if they cover the road outside.

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It would serve little use for you. A decent cctv system that is installed correctly with hd resolution (and night vision) is what you'll want. 

What would you do with the registration number? Nothing. It gives you a vehicle and not the driver or occupants, often not the right vehicle either. The car may be found but unless it's within a few minutes youll struggle to charge. 

You need the faces of the person driving for it to be of use. Or something unique and identifiable like a tattoo a white chap in dark clothing won't cut it.  

It's seldom I see cctv that's any good. Normally it's at a weird angle with cobwebs over the lense and or blinded by a bright light with zero definition at night (or day). The operator cannot work it is also common.  Zero thought into installing it. Its even rarer to be actually of any use to identify someone as the face is normally  blurry (You cannot enhance it if the camera cannot record it) because of the above reasons. To  e honest the reality is you cannot enhance it anyway, I know as I've tried. A lot. 

On the odd occasion(1 in 10 or less) it is good quality and the face is seen there's a very good chance of progressing things. 

There is much cheaper and easier ways of securing your car than cctv. 

If cctv is the way you go then one of my favourite things at the minute is the ring doorbell. Cheap too. They are motion activated and good quality. Lots of people have fallen foul of it the second they step on the path. You know instantly as it tells you, you can speak with them and if you like call the police, provide the footage and giggle like a school boy when they get caught shortly after. The footage cannot be stolen as it's recorded online. You can be on holiday and still access it and provide it. 

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I’ve got CCTV at home but previous experience is that they turn up in hoodies and masks, and the masks have UV thread in them so all you get is a bright blur. CCTV is sort of a deterrent in that they may want to go to house with no CCTV but on the whole I think it’s looking like a waste of time.

The insurers have asked I get Vodafone tracker fitted and I’ve got an old fashioned steering wheel lock - I got a combination one because the easier it is to use the more likely I will use it

What we really need is more physical police and the local council not to turn all the streetlights off at midnight in order to save on their leccy bills. 

Edited by Mungler

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A. You cant stop them wearing hoodies

B. That renders your CCTV totally U/S regardless of how many HD numbers they have after the name

C. The police really cant be bothered, as you know.

You really need to be able to stop the scum from actually being able to drive the cars off. You either need a physical barrier they cant get through, remove the wheels or fit immobilizers. Or have your shot gun loaded with rock salt and sent them some seasoning.   

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On 24/02/2020 at 16:59, Gordon R said:

ANPR  and CCTV used on domestic premises are exempt from the Data Protection Act, even if they cover the road outside.

Not wishing to cause offence but this is the complete opposite of the truth, as an ex cctv and and secured entry system installer I can tell you as a matter of fact that if your cctv on domestic premises records anywhere outside the boundary of your property you are not only governed by gdpr but you are also bound by the same rules as commercial systems. 
 

for further info  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property

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On 22/02/2020 at 21:29, Mungler said:

So, not that long ago I was sniffing for info about bollards because of local vehicle thefts. Well the bloke 6 doors up the road has had his new 4x4 stolen off his drive last Tuesday at 1 am. The thieves appear to have arrived in a Tesla 3 with moody plates.

In all the Esso garages they have a number plate recognition system - if your car number plate doesn’t stack up (tax, mot, vehicle registered etc) then the pump auto locks and you can’t get fuel even if paying by cash. Not sure if the tech stretches to matching plate to car or car colour though.

The tech seems simple enough - OCR the plate, quick handshake with DVLA or whatever Database sits behind the ASK MID  System.

If you operate a private car park you can licence a commercial system - they’re everywhere now.

Anyone got any experience of these systems and could I run one at home? My house is at the top of a cul de sac and recording everything coming in and out of the close could be easily captured.

Needless to say police say they’re giving up on the missing car now 😝 

Edit

I should add that the cars going missing in a cul de sac will have to be scoped out first to be targeted. Just having a record of who has been in and out of the road will be a good start 


What are you going to do? Record every single number plate?
 

The DVLA won’t be giving you the owners details of a massive list of cars surely? 
 

Although it is a bloody joke that they give them to those dodgy parking firms. 

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Quote

 

Mungler is asking about ANPR which is just reading number plates, not taking video footage of neighbours or looking into their houses / gardens.

Edited by Gordon R

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8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Mungler is asking about ANPR which is just reading number plates, not taking video footage of neighbours or looking into their houses / gardens.

Yes, the theory (put forward by the police and alarm company) was that cars stolen to order have to first be spotted and located and that means someone looking them in a car that doesn’t have stolen plates and is not drawing attention to themselves ie wearing a hoodie.

The logic was that if you lived down a cul de sac and collected the details of every car that ever entered the road (and perhaps the driver’s face) then there may be a later link back in the event of a crime and failing that anyone entering the road in the first place may then strike that road off their list ie not return and go and find someone else to steal from.

 

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4 hours ago, Mungler said:

Yes, the theory (put forward by the police and alarm company) was that cars stolen to order have to first be spotted and located and that means someone looking them in a car that doesn’t have stolen plates and is not drawing attention to themselves ie wearing a hoodie.

The logic was that if you lived down a cul de sac and collected the details of every car that ever entered the road (and perhaps the driver’s face) then there may be a later link back in the event of a crime and failing that anyone entering the road in the first place may then strike that road off their list ie not return and go and find someone else to steal from.

 

How would they know an ANPR was in operation or that you was recording their face?

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4 hours ago, Mungler said:

Yes, the theory (put forward by the police and alarm company) was that cars stolen to order have to first be spotted and located and that means someone looking them in a car that doesn’t have stolen plates and is not drawing attention to themselves ie wearing a hoodie.

The logic was that if you lived down a cul de sac and collected the details of every car that ever entered the road (and perhaps the driver’s face) then there may be a later link back in the event of a crime and failing that anyone entering the road in the first place may then strike that road off their list ie not return and go and find someone else to steal from.

 


You’ve been watching too many spy shows mate :P 

Even if you record every car that enters the road, what then? The Police aren’t going to go and interview someone because they drove down your street 6 weeks ago. 
 

Besides these cars are normally stolen to order. Thieves will have tools for specific models or makes they are after. They’ll do all sorts, my sister got followed in Birmingham to her friends house, and when she pulled up they opened her boot and stole all their luggage. Brand new Range Rover, they obviously had some contacts in the factory in Birmingham and the tools, as they opened the locked entrance alarmed boot in seconds and were off with all their stuff. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have someone on some car databases being given a back hander and just giving a list of addresses. 

 

26 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

How would they know an ANPR was in operation or that you was recording their face?

If they saw a sign saying ANPR in the street, they’d just come back another time with their fake plates 🤷‍♂️

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Would take seconds to connect trip wire to alarm mine or attach to your car Squire. Sound of a 12 bore blank going off will either scare theme or wake you 😳

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Neighbour had his front door jemmied at 2 o'clock this morning and 5 intruders snatched all 5 of his car keys off the living room table. He confronted the five of them, 4 of whom scarpered with the keys into an Audi A3 LL69GDX, the 5th doubled back and nicked his Merc, which was clocked somewhat later in North London. All on CCTV, but all unrecognisable in hoodies. So, door repaired, 4 car locks changed and one Merc no doubt already in a container bound for Eastern Europe.

Edited by amateur

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Based on personal experience, I would concur that the police aren't going to follow up on a stolen vehicle. The best deterrent is in making it awkward for the thieves to lift the car in the first place. After my 4 series was taken off my drive in May '18 we starting using the RF proof bags to store the keys but more importantly have steering locks on all our cars now. Without wishing to tempt fate, so far so good...

The people nicking these motors are not the same type of scrotes as those doing household burglaries, they are professionals. My cousin had his 4 series nicked off his drive earlier this year and the thieves even managed to hack his network and delete all the CCTV files.

When my car was taken I made inquiries through contacts I know to see if I could at least get back the personal gear that was in the car when it was taken (lots of mountaineering / ski equipment) - the two local crews operating in my area swore they had nothing to do with it and I was assured that if they had then the people I knew would have "convinced" them to drop my gear back at my house. Both suggested that it was an eastern bloc crew working locally at the time but likely to be operating throughout the county / region over time.

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