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Lead ban & BASC


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25 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Its nothing to do with the environment as you say, Lead is a bad word its time for it to go it seems. I just do not see it being a problem. BASC will have their reasons if indeed they want any action with us not using lead voluntary. Wait and see what happens first, in the GL fiasco. the same old BASC bashing was going on by much the same people. again WAIT lets get the facts see what is going on then start moaning.

  I knowc this much steel is not lead, but it gets the job done and this kid will still be out there wildfowling partridge shooting grouse shooting  pigeon shooting and foxing if lead goes.

That's precisely it though, with the GL's still not settled, the lead ban is being thrown in at the same time to add to the confusion. Id like to think BASC would be concentrating on one issue at a time, namely the GL's at the moment and not even entertaining any sort of lead nonsense until they are 100% workable and watertight and nailed down in writing. 

Lets face it if that isn't sorted this whole debate is pointless anyway.

 

27 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Lead comes from the ground and is returned to the ground for centuries. The representatives have sold us down the river, I recommend you all to cancel with BASC, CA. etc. A new NRA style British alternative is coming soon and will be available to actually represent British Shooters! 

Not a dig, but do you have some credible evidence you can show us to prove this? 

I'd be happy to put my money into an organisation that looks out for all of us, from the backyard air gunner, clay, game and beyond.

It's a little hard for me to believe with things the way they are at the moment as it is going to be a big gamble even if you just look at it financially.

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34 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

If we dig a few 300 foot holes drive the birds down the holes and shoot them on the way down., then yes it will work well.:good:

Watch your second suggestion not happen.

We wait open mouthed for the latter.

Lost for words

BASC Statement on Lead Shot

At BASC our arguments are backed by solid, scientific evidence and we refuse to countenance any decisions proposed by policy-makers, regulators or others that are not soundly evidence-based.

An attack on shooters will be seen as an attack on the countryside itself.

And as we provide clear evidence to support our case we will expect those who seek to restrict any aspect of shooting to do the same. They must back their claims with hard evidence, and this is particularly important in contentious areas such as the use of lead shot.

Let me make BASC’s position on lead totally clear: no sound evidence, no change.

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11 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

That's precisely it though, with the GL's still not settled, the lead ban is being thrown in at the same time to add to the confusion. Id like to think BASC would be concentrating on one issue at a time, namely the GL's at the moment and not even entertaining any sort of lead nonsense until they are 100% workable and watertight and nailed down in writing. 

Lets face it if that isn't sorted this whole debate is pointless anyway.

 

Not a dig, but do you have some credible evidence you can show us to prove this? 

I'd be happy to put my money into an organisation that looks out for all of us, from the backyard air gunner, clay, game and beyond.

It's a little hard for me to believe with things the way they are at the moment as it is going to be a big gamble even if you just look at it financially.

If 1 or 15 things are thrown at BASC on any given day, they do not get to pick and chose which they want to deal with first. the GLs were always going to be dificult, we knew that last year when they did what they could to get us up and running again, and they still will now.

This lead shot ban. No real facts yet but we are leaving BASC in droves at opening tomorrow AM. BASC have no power they can advise they can suggest things, lobby where they can and try and help our cause. That is it. just stubbornly saying no to a lead ban is no answer to anything is it. First thing we need is the facts, then start working things out from there.

7 minutes ago, AULD YIN said:

Lost for words

BASC Statement on Lead Shot

At BASC our arguments are backed by solid, scientific evidence and we refuse to countenance any decisions proposed by policy-makers, regulators or others that are not soundly evidence-based.

An attack on shooters will be seen as an attack on the countryside itself.

And as we provide clear evidence to support our case we will expect those who seek to restrict any aspect of shooting to do the same. They must back their claims with hard evidence, and this is particularly important in contentious areas such as the use of lead shot.

Let me make BASC’s position on lead totally clear: no sound evidence, no change.

 

I believed you when you told me before . HONEST!

Lets get the real facts to this first hey.

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Just seen the fieldsports channel video on this.

Watch the price of even the cheapest 3inch semi autos like hatsans going up now that they will handle steel cartridges at higher pressures than peoples older good quality shotguns. Cant wait to rip into some of the reps from these organisations at country fairs that they frequent

Edited by Rob85
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4 hours ago, Rob85 said:

Just seen the fieldsports channel video on this.

Watch the price of even the cheapest 3inch semi autos like hatsans going up now that they will handle steel cartridges at higher pressures than peoples older good quality shotguns. Cant wait to rip into some of the reps from these organisations at country fairs that they frequent

Another good point.

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So, no startling new piece of evidence to support the demise of lead shot then. This is not a scientific decision, it is purely political. Maybe it is for our best interests in the long run, but I can't help thinking it would have been nice for the people who fund these organisations to have been consulted about it first. 

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We have all been well and truly done over and it seems we have literally no choice in the matter!! Time to order 20k of cartridges I think 🤔 either the price will rocket over the next few years or they will be pulled from shelves slowly 🤷🏼‍♂️ Definitely time to leave these shooting organisations 👍🏻👍🏻

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I suspect BASC and the other organisations wouldn't have implemented this unless they knew the government had similar plans brewing already. I hope that they capitalise on this benefit and make sure it's on our terms as much as possible (which would never be an option had the government done so first). Allowances need to be made for older guns that can't take regular steel let alone high performance. The antique/vintage interest must be strong enough within the key stakeholders in these organisations that I doubt they'd be voting to make their own collections obsolete...

I'll switch to steel for my guns that can take it but some can't and I'll be damned if I'm running bismuth through those at that price!

We need more detail from BASC. Are they making exceptions, how do they reconcile this with the official line that lead isn't significantly harmful etc etc

I want to think that there's some kind of higher level of plan here so let's hope it materialises.

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What do they envisage folk will use in 5yrs time for game? Steel or a cheap 28gm clay load in 7's?

A ban unless total is completely unworkable and they know that. They're softening the blow at the minute. Clay shooting unaffected? No chance!

It will be the death knell for grass roots,local farm clay shoots.

I support our organisations but they've called this one badly wrong.

WR.

 

 

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7 hours ago, lancer425 said:

If 1 or 15 things are thrown at BASC on any given day, they do not get to pick and chose which they want to deal with first. the GLs were always going to be dificult, we knew that last year when they did what they could to get us up and running again, and they still will now.

This lead shot ban. No real facts yet but we are leaving BASC in droves at opening tomorrow AM. BASC have no power they can advise they can suggest things, lobby where they can and try and help our cause. That is it. just stubbornly saying no to a lead ban is no answer to anything is it. First thing we need is the facts, then start working things out from there.

I believed you when you told me before . HONEST!

Lets get the real facts to this first hey.

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree there.

They are big boys and girls over at BASC and there should have been priorities. I'm far from being a BASC basher but I'm inclined to agree with the other comments. We have been sold down the river here. To switch their stance overnight and bow to clearly green pressure is ridiculous. 

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So do all the hushpowers work with steel? Can we use steel in forests? 
will the clay ground let you shooters use steel? 
will the home office regulations for shot fall out at clay grounds  remain the same or will it close many of them? 
will the cpsa change it’s rules to allow the shooting of steel in competition? 
just a few questions I shall be asking if I receive anything from Basc today 

may

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45 minutes ago, Sharpshooter.123 said:

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/lead-shot-ban-shock/       
here we go for a morning read 🙄🙄🙄

The Denmark shooters comments were interesting, no mention that they are polluting their shoreline with plastic wads and maximum distance 30mtrs also no mention in the video about small gauge guns. 

Just cannot see the high gun game shooters giving up what they love until forced to via a legal ban.

voluntary so I guess it will just be business as usual?

 Looks more like an PR attempt to help the cartridge manufactures drive up sales on steel cartridges to make the numbers more economically viable and try and take the moral ground back with the likes of WJ and DEFRA re the release of game birds.

But if WJ get their way their will be no game shooting full stop and lead is a tiny part of their legal arguments.

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9 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

Death by a thousand cuts has never been more relevant. Well, this is more like a gaping wound.

I can see it now amongst the anti brigade       

'ooo look, they've rolled over and given up lead without too much of a fight, let's really poke at them and see what else we can get'. 

It's got nothing to do with the 'effect' on the environment, anyone would be a fool to think otherwise.

Spot on. If this does happen - and we should know shortly - then we're going to be fighting off the back foot and retreating to the ropes understanding how Wilder felt knowing that the big punches from Fury which will finish us are just about to land and there's nothing we can do about it.

Must admit I didn't see this coming with regard to the involvement of all/most of the organisations. I would imagine that the lions/donkeys lot are ready and waiting to discredit those who wish to make a valid criticism by their usual means.

Have to confess that it was more to do with ongoing availability, but fortunately I've already stocked up with sufficient ammunition to see me out figuring that I've probably just got one more certificates renewal before I pack it all in.

EDIT: Oops, just seen it, scrub the "if" bit.

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