Penelope Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 21 hours ago, grahamch said: Seems a bit of a pre-occupation with 2.5 inch guns. Surely there cant be huge numbers still used? The vast majority of English and Scottish side by sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 9 hours ago, AULD YIN said: Whatever your on you really should stop taking it And you really should start taking it in its true context. 1e. Nonsense of course its utter tw3oddle but more believable than the orgs wanting their own way to ruin our sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 36 minutes ago, Penelope said: And if I don't want to reload? Don't have the space or time? You need to either wait and see if the cartridge companies start production on 2.5 inch non tox or buy a modern gun. When lead got banned in cars , you find the time and space to add the additives , go to the expense of a lead cylinder hear rebuild/ conversion, or pay more for 4 star "Leaded fuel" which you can still get and are allowed to use. None of us want to give up lead, we did not in Wildfowling. I gave up two double 8 bores and a single 4 all down to lead, had been in my family nearly 100 years, but they had to go because i made the decision l was not going to load martix or bismuth. Nothing in life stays the same, we have to put our selves out"reloading" or pay the price. Its about taking a toxic shot out of our societey, only thing i see holding us back at the moment is wads. Wildfowlers have sorted out your shot options for you. The USA are selling TSS loads why are we not doing this,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 2 hours ago, lancer425 said: You need to either wait and see if the cartridge companies start production on 2.5 inch non tox or buy a modern gun. When lead got banned in cars , you find the time and space to add the additives , go to the expense of a lead cylinder hear rebuild/ conversion, or pay more for 4 star "Leaded fuel" which you can still get and are allowed to use. None of us want to give up lead, we did not in Wildfowling. I gave up two double 8 bores and a single 4 all down to lead, had been in my family nearly 100 years, but they had to go because i made the decision l was not going to load martix or bismuth. Nothing in life stays the same, we have to put our selves out"reloading" or pay the price. Its about taking a toxic shot out of our societey, only thing i see holding us back at the moment is wads. Wildfowlers have sorted out your shot options for you. The USA are selling TSS loads why are we not doing this,? Wildfowler, pigeon and game shot. Spanish 10, English 3" & English 2 1/2" in 12. I use the 2 1/2 for about 80% of my shooting (pigeon & game). Happy to put steel through the other 2 and have used HW13 in the 3". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 2 hours ago, lancer425 said: You need to either wait and see if the cartridge companies start production on 2.5 inch non tox or buy a modern gun. A modern SxS is going to cost more than £4000..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dibble said: A modern SxS is going to cost more than £4000..... You can get a yildiz sxs for about a grand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 minute ago, grahamch said: You can get a yildiz sxs for about a grand Come on lads , lets not get dotting is and crossing Ts on this one. We all know we can pick up a sXs anywhere for under 500. in as new or mint condition. They are virtually worthless used, why tale the hit on a new one no sense in that at all. No avoiding it "Lead is a useful and common metal that has been used by humans for thousands of years. It is also a very dangerous poison, particularly for children, when it is accidentally inhaled or ingested. ... However, it is still a real problem that continues to poison thousands of people in the U.S. each year." Its toxic its got to go, steel will do the job its these ******* ****** wads that the trouble. Right at this moment in time we are pretty much screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akey Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Well this is turning into a bit of a spat https://basc.org.uk/basc-issues-further-statement-on-non-lead-ammunition/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_content=Lead+Press I guess this is now down to what you define as 'consulted'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 I have no doubt we will be able to develop a card cup wad within 5 years however there are 2 problems with historic SxS. As mentioned the chambers are small possibly new powders will help. The second problem is if you need 36g if steel to do the job of 28g of lead recoil will increase in lightweight guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 01:23, Saltings said: threw some steel shot away a few days ago as from this season a solid rusted lump running pretty hot imagine the damage next season on the foreshore if not noticed steel shot must be stored properly from manufacture all the way a boom lead no such problems manufacturers can store stuff for years as they run in batches of many thousands at a time non toxics are not the only answer lead shot can be more efficient however not much lead in commercial shot these days a lot of junk metals true lead shot deforms and is slow modern day looks the same before and after when taken from a carcase if you pigeon shoot how many times have you hit a pigeon a ball of feathers in the air only to fly on sit in a tree for a few min fall out dead dress it out and be drilled through like a pepper pot soft shot kills better I can remember shooting game with gran prix and biting into shot spit out and flatten on a plate with the back of your fork bite into shot these days its a dentist trip and a bill Soft shot kills better? I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dibble said: The second problem is if you need 36g if steel to do the job of 28g of lead recoil will increase in lightweight guns. As I have said, I think those choosing to use light 2 1/2" steel loads will have to be realistic about effective maximum range. No bad thing in my view in theory. Knowing at what range your gun/cartridge combination is effective is part of what all responsible live quarry shots should know. My guess is that 28g of No 4 steel will be OK at the ranges that apply for the vast majority of shots in 'normal' shoots. For those that believe that shooting extreme ranges of 60, 70 and more yards is OK, - they will have to see if they can find a suitable gun/cartridge combination that can produce a 'killing pattern and energy' at the ranges concerned. Personally I have no interest in that area and lack the ability to shoot sufficiently well to feel I am being sporting at long ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dibble said: I have no doubt we will be able to develop a card cup wad within 5 years however there are 2 problems with historic SxS. As mentioned the chambers are small possibly new powders will help. The second problem is if you need 36g if steel to do the job of 28g of lead recoil will increase in lightweight guns. Not just historic sxs, just worked out the price to have my two pairs of Miroku MK60s multi choked from full & 3/4, a cool £2100+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 11:22, bluesj said: As far as I see it basc have screwed up big time. Not in the idea behind getting rid of lead and plastic but by not asking the people that actually know what they are talking about if it is possible and in what time frame, they could then have gone to the government and pushed for changes in the regulation to be able to make a cartridge that can kill as well as lead. Then you get a couple of dangerous idiots put up a video of the make a hand full of cartridges out of some that you can't get here anyway through what is going to be a pretty tough shotgun and tell everyone that all is ok with steel shot and no protective wad! I'd like to see them put another few thousand through and the see if there is no damage! There was absolutely nothing dangerous about what they were doing. It was a mere test. Not once did they say it should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: For those that believe that shooting extreme ranges of 60, 70 and more yards is OK, - they will have to see if they can find a suitable gun/cartridge combination that can produce a 'killing pattern and energy' at the ranges concerned. Personally I have no interest in that area and lack the ability to shoot sufficiently well to feel I am being sporting at long ranges. I'm not a fan of chasing Pheasant off hilltops to produce highbirds either. Perhaps we will return to closer faster quarry and away from a large quantity of distant birds. This also might happen with clays, grounds might move away from 70m high towers and crossers that start 30m out, this of course would suit SxSs (and those of us with aging eyesight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Dibble said: This also might happen with clays, grounds might move away from 70m high towers and crossers that start 30m out, this of course would suit SxSs (and those of us with aging eyesight). Whilst I use an openish choked s/s 12 bore on clays (with currently 21g fibre wad lead) - I have no qualms about range when shooting at clay targets. It may cause a chuckle (largely at my expense) - but nothing is 'wounded'. It may be me getting old, but I care more and more about these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Dibble said: I have no doubt we will be able to develop a card cup wad within 5 years however there are 2 problems with historic SxS. As mentioned the chambers are small possibly new powders will help. The second problem is if you need 36g if steel to do the job of 28g of lead recoil will increase in lightweight guns. Will be a challenge getting 36gm of 4 steel shot in a 28gauge 2.3/4inch cartridge case. Edited March 2, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Dibble said: A modern SxS is going to cost more than £4000..... Buy an older sxs for steel use. 24 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Not just historic sxs, just worked out the price to have my two pairs of Miroku MK60s multi choked from full & 3/4, a cool £2100+ Leave them as they are, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, motty said: Buy an older sxs for steel use. Leave them as they are, then. hello, mottys right there are plenty of good used side by sides for sale in most RFDs, i would look at one improved and half choke, if this ban on lead and to use steel cartridges i can fore see some RFDs might look at sending to a gunsmith work shop to have barrels opened out before selling on saving a buyer time and trouble, Most RFDs have their contacts in the gun trade Edited March 2, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, mottys right there are plenty of good used side by sides for sale in most RFDs, i would look at one improved and half choke, Don't disagree with the above - but remember chamber length. In my view it is the "elephant in the room". Most European s/s are at least 2 3/4" chambered. A great many, most even, English s/s are only 2 1/2". Non toxic with a fibre wad is not currently available for this chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Steel shot is to give it its true composition AFAIK SOFT IRON. Sounds a lot more cuddly than Steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, motty said: Buy an older sxs for steel use. Leave them as they are, then. And what cartridges would you recommend in 5 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, mottys right there are plenty of good used side by sides for sale in most RFDs, i would look at one improved and half choke, Look at whatever choke you want. I would go full myself but its up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Just now, lancer425 said: Look at whatever choke you want. I would go full myself but its up to you. hello, i was quoted no more than 1/2 or 3/4 at most choke in a side by side that is not steel proofed, from a leading cartridge seller in UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, akey said: Well this is turning into a bit of a spat https://basc.org.uk/basc-issues-further-statement-on-non-lead-ammunition/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_content=Lead+Press I guess this is now down to what you define as 'consulted'. Some of that statement to me, reads like BASC think they are a governing body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcgunner Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) One yanks perspective on steel shot. We are seeing an increased amount of classic double shotguns ruined by firing steel shot through them. When looking at guns one must carefully look down the outside barrels and inspect for ring bulges just behind the choke area. on occasion it can break the rib loose but not always. I have not seen a shotguns bore damaged but have seen dozens with ring bulges. the steel shot must leave the bore at higher velocities and being much harder than steel will not compress in the choke as well as the softer metals. I would never fire steel through a gun not proofed for it even if the chokes had been opened to try to keep the bulging from happening. Thankfully wildfowling is the only place that I currently shoot that requires No- Tox Ammunition. I load expensive bismuth shot that performs as well as lead and can practice with lead at clays. I don't mind the extra expense for the few actual shots we take at wild fowl. and actually like the idea of replacing the plastic components with biosafe materials. a blanket lead ban for all shooting would be the death Knell for sportsman. we can buy 2.5 inch Bismuth low pressure loads from a classic ammunition manufacture (RST ammo) but it is much cheaper to hand load the small amount you actually fire at waterfowl. below Belgin Browning A-5 Edited March 2, 2020 by simcgunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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