Lead ban & BASC

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

UK Cartridge manufactures are in business to make money, why if it was simple for them tomorrow to change over to steel shot and biodegradable wads would they opt not to do so? Especially as given the value add of the biodegradable wads and less competition  the profit on these cartridges look to be far greater than the equivalent in lead shot and non biodegradable wads.

you cannot double quick time extra manufacturing capacity if it is not their in the first place and any increase in production capacity would need a significant investment and just may be the manufacture of the water soluble wads does not have that kind of money after all it was funded by EU grants and may be they consider their is no urgency on their part to bailout the uk cartridge industry preferring to simply sell the wads to their EU Spanish partners.
To dismiss the UK cartridge manufacture for not telling the truth with no facts and figures to back it up makes no sense.

 Its not as big deal if some scratty little firm like JOKER can churn out a suitable product in next to no time why can Hull Express gamebore not move as fast.?

6 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 I think you’re missing the point the shooting organisation and the cartridge companies started this,  I personally I’m not looking for a name or a face to blame,  I just don’t like being lied to,  you can imagine if it’s the cartridge  companies  that are lying   It means they could be putting anything in the cartridges and telling you there safe,  if it’s a shooting organisations  that are lying  it means they’re just looking out for their selves,  they all need to get their house in order now 

 And I for one will not support anybody that lies  simple as 

Who lied  that is the key question. and an answer i think we may never get to hear. Move on follow the advice as close as you can, watch the ammo firms show you loud and clear they are not telling the truth. in double quick time.

[silver fox 1]

4 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

 Its not as big deal if some scratty little firm like JOKER can churn out a suitable product in next to no time why can Hull Express gamebore not move as fast.?

 Maybe they’ve been working on it for years  and this has come at the right time for them who knows,  I haven’t done any research on this as I didn’t know this was out,   Hopefully we  Will get usable bio degradable wads  within this five-year voluntary period,  but it would be nice without all the lying  and finger-pointing.  Makes me wonder these people are behaving like children Spitting their dummies out  because they can’t get her own way  

[Terry2016]

3 hours ago, Salopian said:

Lancer 425,

 Perhaps YOU need to know a few facts?

On Wednesday I visited BASC HQ @ Marford Mill because I am so concerned about the mess BASC aND OTHER ORGANISATIONS have made of this issue.

I asked who was responsible for issuing the 'voluntary lead ban statement' and was told it was the Communications Dept. I asked if I could speak with someone from that department?  I was asked what did I wish to discuss ? I was then told that no one was available .

I persisted and was then interviewd by a member of the Firearms Dept. I made my points of view known and the fact that BASC had issued statements not too long ago that they would support the continued use of Lead shot . ALL my points he agreed were correct and very valid . I then asked " Were the GT and Cartridge Manufacturers consulted ?"

The answer was " Yes and we have documentary evidence ." 

Then on Friday (yesterday ) Gamebore and Lyalvale Express issue statements to the contrary .

SOMEONE is not telling the truth !

Who do you think is being economical with the facts? 

Gamebore and Lyvale are only 2 manufacturers ? ... funny how none of the others have come forwards...  ?

Gamebore already make bio degradable non toxic ammunition and are looking to support the challenge set by the 9 orgs it says it at the bottom of the latest statement ..

Lyvale ? who cares... 

There are also many many many European cartridge manufacturers that will supply the uk market.

Cartridge manufacturers will supply the demand... there are many others willing too .... 

if they did not see this coming then whoever creates there long term business plan needs a p45

 

 

[grahamch]

53 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Why exactly are we perusing this line of thought on who said what to who and when. The cartridge manufacturers are clearly not telling the truth anyway we all know if all this came to law tonight they would get products out in double quick time. we are barely a fortnight in and joker have a product out there. Truth is they do not want to do this that is the top and bottom of it.

But keep digging keep scratching, you might get a Name even a face to blame for ALL THIS HORROR.  then you can sit down give yourselves a big pat on the back and say A JOB WELL DONE. Culprit finished goes straight into a new job in DEFRA ETC . Only ones getting injured here are us. Let go move on lets get done what our Organisations suggest we do as best we can at the moment.

Hearing conspiracy theory but not seeing any evidence, no real reason to believe its any more than typical reluctance to change on all sides both shooters and cartridge firms.

Any details of the new joker products?

[oldypigeonpopper]

13 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Any details of the new joker products?

hello, it is Jocker cartridges, try contact Nick at Shooting Star Company, i could only see on twitter and face ach

[rbrowning2]

10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, it is Jocker cartridges, try contact Nick at Shooting Star Company, i could only see on twitter and face ach

If the jocker cartridges are so good and available, why was shooting star company at the shooting show promoting the Bioammo cartridges? After all you would expect the joker version to be cheaper and they will import both makes.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

If the jocker cartridges are so good and available, why was shooting star company at the shooting show promoting the Bioammo cartridges? After all you would expect the joker version to be cheaper and they will import both makes.

hello, never went to the show so cannot comment, i thought the PW member might get some info from this company which i found on google, who makes the Bioammo cartridge ?

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, cardigun said:

Those are the ones that members need to speak to,

Cardigun hi. Yep, see your point. It was your comment about local representation that steered me towards the local BASC reps as shown in the magazine. Even so, a local BASC rep should be able to furnish you with the names of the council members. Kalahari who is a member of PW, has I think stood for election in the past & may be able to shed some light on your question.

If you google BASC Council Members, you can bring up the list. However, for obvious reasons there are no contact details. A phone call or email to BASC might reveal how to make contact, albeit the phones are probably running red hot at present !!!!!

Edited March 7, 2020 by JJsDad
Extra info

[wymberley]

5 hours ago, grahamch said:

Any details of the new joker products?

Just a heads up really - I only looked into this to find out the correct spelling -  sad what! Their lead shot at the smaller end is re-claimed and although well graded and graphite covered it apparently patterns very wide. Obviously, any steel/otherNTS won't be so there'll be a price premium.

[oowee]

5 hours ago, lancer425 said:

 Its not as big deal if some scratty little firm like JOKER can churn out a suitable product in next to no time why can Hull Express gamebore not move as fast.?

Who lied  that is the key question. and an answer i think we may never get to hear. Move on follow the advice as close as you can, watch the ammo firms show you loud and clear they are not telling the truth. in double quick time.

I suspect neither side is lying just a matter of what exactly was discussed. BASC could have had a convo with cartridge manf's re the need to move to greater sustainability. They agree that, this is the way forward. Basc issue the statement and the manf's say they were not consulted. BASC are right to say they have consulted (about the need for change). The Manf's are correct that they were not consulted (about the statement).

Or some derivation of the above. 

[rbrowning2]

5 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, never went to the show so cannot comment, i thought the PW member might get some info from this company which i found on google, who makes the Bioammo cartridge ?

https://bioammo.es/leave-no-trace-behind/
 

Apparently going to be similar price to the eley offering, again made in Spain with a 8 million euro startup grant.

Also google bioammo YouTube.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by rbrowning2

[lancer425]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

I suspect neither side is lying just a matter of what exactly was discussed. BASC could have had a convo with cartridge manf's re the need to move to greater sustainability. They agree that, this is the way forward. Basc issue the statement and the manf's say they were not consulted. BASC are right to say they have consulted (about the need for change). The Manf's are correct that they were not consulted (about the statement).

Or some derivation of the above. 

Agree, But there are those on here who want more. If you listen you can here a distant bloodhound crocking .

[lancer425]

6 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

Gamebore and Lyvale are only 2 manufacturers ? ... funny how none of the others have come forwards...  ?

Gamebore already make bio degradable non toxic ammunition and are looking to support the challenge set by the 9 orgs it says it at the bottom of the latest statement ..

Lyvale ? who cares... 

There are also many many many European cartridge manufacturers that will supply the uk market.

Cartridge manufacturers will supply the demand... there are many others willing too .... 

if they did not see this coming then whoever creates there long term business plan needs a p45

 

 

rc b&p AND FOB  Are innovative firms they could easily bring something out. .

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

https://bioammo.es/leave-no-trace-behind/
 

Apparently going to be similar price to the eley offering, again made in Spain with a 8 million euro startup grant.

Also google bioammo YouTube.

 

Thanks

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

Agree, But there are those on here who want more. If you listen you can here a distant bloodhound crocking .

as salopian was told by basc (yes and we have documentary evidence) there is NO grey area somebody IS lying so i suggest you ask basc to produce this documentary evidence because salopiands word is good enough for me if not for you this is not something to joke about it stains ALL shooters 

[rbrowning2]

Copied from stalking directory forum (thanks to them), is this what it is all about?

There are numerous rumors doing the rounds on social media regarding the BASC's financial involvement in the British Game Alliance and having signed a multi million pound deal with waitrose to supply lead free game at the start of the season.
A simple search on companies house reveals that the BASC have a charging order against the BGA to the tune of 100k, so i guess part of the rumors are true.
If this is the reason for the u-turn the members have a right to know.

 

[ShootingEgg]

9 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Copied from stalking directory forum (thanks to them), is this what it is all about?

There are numerous rumors doing the rounds on social media regarding the BASC's financial involvement in the British Game Alliance and having signed a multi million pound deal with waitrose to supply lead free game at the start of the season.
A simple search on companies house reveals that the BASC have a charging order against the BGA to the tune of 100k, so i guess part of the rumors are true.
If this is the reason for the u-turn the members have a right to know.

 

Honesty goes along way. Trying to pull the wool over the eyes of 155k members would not be to clever 

[Perazzishot]

2 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Honesty goes along way. Trying to pull the wool over the eyes of 155k members would not be to clever 

BASC Directors on the board and I believe a few are private investors also.

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

as sallopian was told by basc (yes and we have documentary evidence) there is NO grey area somebody IS lying so i suggest you ask basc to produce this documentary evidence because salopiands word is good enough for me if not for you this is not something to joke about it stains ALL shooters 

I do not doubt @salopians word and don’t you imply i do, trying to make a cap fit.  IF BASC HAVE DOCUMENTS , then they have  Documents. But we or anybody else are never forced to see them.

  The shooting Organisations asked for a voluntary ban on Lead shot in live quarry shooting, and on single use plastics . Cartridge companies say they were not consulted words like zero and NO consultation. So we must presume there has been perhaps some misinterpretation or is it about timing or an outside influence we do not know and may never know. Move on . It is decidedly unrealistic to imagine that the cartridge firms in this country had no knowledge of this, especially when Gamebore and eley make ammo and have been developing and has been on youtube etc being tested.  THEY KNEW.

 

[clangerman]

15 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I do not doubt @salopians word and don’t you imply i do, trying to make a cap fit.  IF BASC HAVE DOCUMENTS , then they have  Documents. But we or anybody else are never forced to see them.

  The shooting Organisations asked for a voluntary ban on Lead shot in live quarry shooting, and on single use plastics . Cartridge companies say they were not consulted words like zero and NO consultation. So we must presume there has been perhaps some misinterpretation or is it about timing or an outside influence we do not know and may never know. Move on . It is decidedly unrealistic to imagine that the cartridge firms in this country had no knowledge of this, especially when Gamebore and eley make ammo and have been developing and has been on youtube etc being tested.  THEY KNEW.

 

mate we will see what we will see this is not going to disappear especially now we have the BGA thing come to light and everyone can read the comments so let’s see which one of us ends up looking foolish 

[8 shot]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Copied from stalking directory forum (thanks to them), is this what it is all about?

There are numerous rumors doing the rounds on social media regarding the BASC's financial involvement in the British Game Alliance and having signed a multi million pound deal with waitrose to supply lead free game at the start of the season.
A simple search on companies house reveals that the BASC have a charging order against the BGA to the tune of 100k, so i guess part of the rumors are true.
If this is the reason for the u-turn the members have a right to know.

 

Christ it I’ll be cheaper to shoot em with Bismuth than buy them in Waitrose if it like everything else they sell. 

[andrewluke]

maybe Waitrose will subsidise the cartridge companies

[lancer425]

30 minutes ago, clangerman said:

mate we will see what we will see this is not going to disappear especially now we have the BGA thing come to light and everyone can read the comments so let’s see which one of us ends up looking foolish 

what is the big deal.

[8 shot]

7 hours ago, lancer425 said:

what is the big deal.

Might just stick with em. Free life membership for all existing member being as we are all stakeholders. Got to admit, it’s a bit naughty 

[silver fox 1]

 Does that mean that BASC  has now become glorified Game Dealer‘s ?