Lead ban & BASC

[lancer425]

27 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I wouldn't mind knowing how much heavy metal actually  passes though us all. We aren't allow to use it as are contracts for malting barley and milling wheat won't allow it, for I think 5 years before, but human sewage sludge has heavy metal in it including lead and that is treated I know, but there is a lot spread on arable ground all over the country. But needs must there 🤔 More important issues possibly? 

No doubt its being thrown about everywhere by everybody, but they do not want us doing it.

[8 shot]

37 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I do not understand why they are telling you not to use steel in that gun. NO IDEA at all why. Get back on to them you probably just got an anti lead chimpanzee who was eating grapes by the phone when it rang. .

Now spoken to the London Proof House, and told......wait for it...... my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .🤔And will need reproofing if multi choked.   Straight from the horses mouth.

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Now spoken to the London Proof House, and told......wait for it...... my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .🤔And will need reproofing if multi choked.   Straight from the horses mouth.

Thanks for the update 👍😊

[Smokersmith]

This is, and will continue to be an area of great confusion.

I was in Gilsans after the New Year and many of their fixed choke high bird guns had manufacturers stickers on saying NOT SUITABLE FOR STEEL.

 

[JJsDad]

31 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

many of their fixed choke high bird guns had manufacturers stickers on saying NOT SUITABLE FOR STEEL.

For exactly the same reason as the proof house has stipulated below to 8 shot, as dedicated high bird guns they are probably choked 3/4 & full !

 

my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .

Edited March 10, 2020 by JJsDad

[Dave-G]

Please don't laugh but how does one know if their barrels are choked - and by how much?

I only bought the real old over and under tool for smashing crows nests out of trees just before the branching weeks.

 

Spose I'll need a tin hat again. 

[8 shot]

6 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

For exactly the same reason as the proof house has stipulated below to Smokersmith, as dedicated high bird guns they are probably choked 3/4 & full !

 

 

Both 32" barrels high pheasant model,20s I know are top barrel is full and bottom barrel is just under 3/4 measured by a gunsmith when the stocks were shortened

[Smokersmith]

13 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

dedicated high bird guns they are probably choked 3/4 & full

I thought that went without saying .. but yes .. they were 3/4 and full.

[JJsDad]

2 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Please don't laugh but how does one know if their barrels are choked - and by how much?

You dont need a tin hat, not everyone needs or wants to know. A photo of the area around the proof marks will help identify the relevant marks, as different manufacturers & proof houses all have different ways of indicating the degree of choke present when the gun was first made. However, these marks can mislead, as what they wont tell you without gauging is whether the choke has been eased out slightly by a previous owner since the gun was made. If you want to know accurately, a friendly gunsmith will for free or a few pounds measure them with a bore micrometer.

Alternatively the simple brass chokes gauges available off the bay, though not dead accurate, will at least give you an indication of the degree of choke present.

[silver fox 1]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Had this out with my NGO rep’, and as I said earlier; using standard steel shot through non steel proofed guns will NOT invalidate your insurance through that organisation. It would be highly hypocritical and unprofessional for any organisation to offer that advice and then try and claim your insurance is invalid for following such advice. This applies to all third party insurance as far as I’m aware.
It may be worth checking with the relevant insurer regarding a specific gun or guns, insured. 
 

 If you’re covered no problem,   I phoned BASC  yesterday and was told if there was an accident it will be down to the gun experts  so if they  say you shouldn’t  putting steel shot through a non-proofed gun you wouldn’t be insured,  I know what they say about having your gun multi choke or cutting bits off of your barrel they say they should be re-proofed

 I wouldn’t fancy going to court over it  

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Now spoken to the London Proof House, and told......wait for it...... my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .🤔And will need reproofing if multi choked.   Straight from the horses mouth.

See what I mean about a vested interest?  🙂 ‘Will need reproofing’! There is no requirement ( not even by law ) for reproofing, but no doubt the proof house neglected to mention that. 

9 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 If you’re covered no problem,   I phoned BASC  yesterday and was told if there was an accident it will be down to the gun experts  so if they  say you shouldn’t  putting steel shot through a non-proofed gun you wouldn’t be insured,  I know what they say about having your gun multi choke or cutting bits off of your barrel they say they should be re-proofed

 I wouldn’t fancy going to court over it  

Then our shooting organisations need to consult these ‘experts’ in order to clarify exactly what is advised, and stop giving their members advice which contradicts that of ‘experts’. 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Scully

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

You dont need a tin hat, not everyone needs or wants to know. A photo of the area around the proof marks will help identify the relevant marks, as different manufacturers & proof houses all have different ways of indicating the degree of choke present when the gun was first made. However, these marks can mislead, as what they wont tell you without gauging is whether the choke has been eased out slightly by a previous owner since the gun was made. If you want to know accurately, a friendly gunsmith will for free or a few pounds measure them with a bore micrometer.

Alternatively the simple brass chokes gauges available off the bay, though not dead accurate, will at least give you an indication of the degree of choke present.

Thank you so much. 

[8 shot]

10 minutes ago, Scully said:

See what I mean about a vested interest?  🙂 ‘Will need reproofing’! There is no requirement ( not even by law ) for reproofing, but no doubt neglected to mention that. 

I thought it had to for resale in a Gunshop, person to person no, but a gunshop can't sell an out of proof gun, so worthless to sell to a gunshop. Could be wrong, I was told this when I had my rifle barrel shortened and rescrew cut 

[Newbie to this]

11 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I thought it had to for resale in a Gunshop, person to person no, but a gunshop can't sell an out of proof gun, so worthless to sell to a gunshop. Could be wrong, I was told this when I had my rifle barrel shortened and rescrew cut 

I thought it was illegal to sell an out of proof gun, regardless of private or RFD sale.

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I thought it had to for resale in a Gunshop, person to person no, but a gunshop can't sell an out of proof gun, so worthless to sell to a gunshop. Could be wrong, I was told this when I had my rifle barrel shortened and rescrew cut 

If you’re selling it then yes, it has to be reproofed; whether person to person or not. If you’re not selling it then there is no need. You can ‘give’ or ‘gift’ an out of proof or unproved shotgun. 
This is the debate I had with Teague when the lady on the phone insisted a gun I wanted chopping and multi choking HAD to be reproofed. She finally admitted it didn’t, but then told me their insurers insisted on it. 

6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I thought it was illegal to sell an out of proof gun, regardless of private or RFD sale.

It is. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Scully

[silver fox 1]

48 minutes ago, Scully said:

See what I mean about a vested interest?  🙂 ‘Will need reproofing’! There is no requirement ( not even by law ) for reproofing, but no doubt the proof house neglected to mention that. 

Then our shooting organisations need to consult these ‘experts’ in order to clarify exactly what is advised, and stop giving their members advice which contradicts that of ‘experts’. 

 

 Exactly.  That’s what I mean about grey area,

 Probably every expert will have a different opinion 🙄

[8 shot]

23 minutes ago, Scully said:

If you’re selling it then yes, it has to be reproofed; whether person to person or not. If you’re not selling it then there is no need. You can ‘give’ or ‘gift’ an out of proof or unproved shotgun. 

That was sort of the point of have them multi choked.i can't use steel in either as to tighter chokes, almost valueless the nearer the lead ban gets if it even happens. The longer I leave it the longer the lead time to get them done So I have to do something in the next year or so, multi choked and no proof still unsaleable.They're to much money to shoot steel though to distruction as suggested on here, so off to Teague's in the near future at great expense to me. But I'm sure I'm not the only one effected by this thoughtless idea. Though hopefully if the ban doesn't happen I've possibly made them better more desirable guns 🤞

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

That was sort of the point of have them multi choked.i can't use steel in either as to tighter chokes, almost valueless the nearer the lead ban gets if it even happens. The longer I leave it the longer the lead time to get them done So I have to do something in the next year or so, multi choked and no proof still unsaleable.They're to much money to shoot steel though to distruction as suggested on here, so off to Teague's in the near future at great expense to me. But I'm sure I'm not the only one effected by this thoughtless idea. Though hopefully if the ban doesn't happen I've possibly made them better more desirable guns 🤞

I shall happily collect all those "unusable" tightly fixed choked guns at low prices, must be able to squeeze another couple in the cabinets.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

Please don't laugh but how does one know if their barrels are choked - and by how much?

I only bought the real old over and under tool for smashing crows nests out of trees just before the branching weeks.

 

Spose I'll need a tin hat again. 

Just shoot it. you know it makes sense.

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I shall happily collect all those "unusable" tightly fixed choked guns at low prices, must be able to squeeze another couple in the cabinets.

Ditto. Have just bought another cabinet, so a few places up for grabs! 😀

I have two fixed choke trap guns ( full /full and full/extra full ) I fully intend to shoot with both steel and lead...in other words just carry on as before....or as I do now. 🙂

[Whitebridges]

So prey tell is there going to be an amnesty when lead shot is banned? So we all have to run off to the the nearest police station and hand in all our lead ammo? That's really isn't feasible is it? So the police won't want this job will they? Also they won't want to handle claims for the cost of receiving it either. 

It's the biggest load of pigs **** this whole ill thought through thing.  I've just ordered 5k lead carts. 

The BASC are treading on thin ice. If they rumble on much more i'll leave and i know other loyal supporters will do the same.             

  

Edited March 10, 2020 by Whitebridges

[GingerCat]

The steel shot and proof thing always gives me a chuckle. My auto for example is 3in and superior proof for lead. Under cip I can't shoot 3in steel or any shot bigger than no4 and definitely not through anything more than half choke. In the US the very same gun from the very same place can shoot steel in any size I like all day long (and they do). The specs arent that different between cip and saami or whatever it is called.

One then wonders if it's all a bit of money maker and to just trust the manufacturers who cater for all markets and don't want guns blowing up in people's faces or needing new barrels evey time it goes out for fear of not selling anymore. 

[mudpatten]

https://basc.org.uk/download/63109/?fbclid=IwAR1WJlvQMHB0oqQg8zBkimfGITnJZI5Q1DEbKD_6mEQfvFHA8OmqtEwO4Vc

This is a link to the BASC advice on the use of steel shot. Before you have me burnt at the stake as a heretic you need to know that the above advice comes straight from the CIP headquarters in Brussells, Belgium. Most of its members are EU countries, and includes GB, but it is not run by the EU and is an independent, international proof authority.

It performed extensive testing by firing thousands of cartridges through a large variety of guns before arriving at the advice that is given above.

I wonder how the London Proof House, a member of the CIP, has allegedly arrived at a different set of conclusions to their own governing body regarding the degree of choke it is possible to fire standard steel through, or, for that matter, High Performance steel in less than 4mm shot size.

 

[lancer425]

I use steel in full choked older guns, and fast more than HP reloads much of the time. you just need to bear a few things in mind when using steel that is all remember full chokes and steel shot dont mix, except when they do. Full and steel damage barrels, except when they don’t. Full chokes and steel produce blown patterns, except when they don’t. Full chokes and big pellets – BBB and T – really don’t mix, except when they do. if you bear all this in mind you will be fine.

[Whitebridges]

I'd like to know what our government and movers and shakers are going to do about removing all these toxic carbuncles from the environment. Lead shot is teeny-weeny by comparison!