Lead ban & BASC

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I use steel in full choked older guns, and fast more than HP reloads much of the time. you just need to bear a few things in mind when using steel that is all remember full chokes and steel shot dont mix, except when they do. Full and steel damage barrels, except when they don’t. Full chokes and steel produce blown patterns, except when they don’t. Full chokes and big pellets – BBB and T – really don’t mix, except when they do. if you bear all this in mind you will be fine.

I doubt that will help the loads of Members who are unsure!

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

I'd like to know what our government and movers and shakers are going to do about removing all these toxic carbuncles from the environment. Lead shot is teeny-weeny by comparison!

    

To be fair - these are recycled near 100% these days.  Secondly - I 'recycle' roughly 50 lbs of car battery lead about every 10 years per car, 3 cars, so 15 lbs a year - all recycled.

I shoot approx 40-45 oz (say 3 lbs) a week, so 150 lbs a year - none of it recycled.

[lancer425]

17 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I doubt that will help the loads of Members who are unsure!

Will anything, will anything.

[8 shot]

33 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

I'd like to know what our government and movers and shakers are going to do about removing all these toxic carbuncles from the environment. Lead shot is teeny-weeny by comparison!

    

👍as I said early far worse out there and the time it take for a bit of lead in a game bird to kill you, something else will have beat it anyway. The bigger the polluter the more you can get away with

Edited March 10, 2020 by 8 shot

[Old farrier]

57 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

https://basc.org.uk/download/63109/?fbclid=IwAR1WJlvQMHB0oqQg8zBkimfGITnJZI5Q1DEbKD_6mEQfvFHA8OmqtEwO4Vc

This is a link to the BASC advice on the use of steel shot. Before you have me burnt at the stake as a heretic you need to know that the above advice comes straight from the CIP headquarters in Brussells, Belgium. Most of its members are EU countries, and includes GB, but it is not run by the EU and is an independent, international proof authority.

It performed extensive testing by firing thousands of cartridges through a large variety of guns before arriving at the advice that is given above.

I wonder how the London Proof House, a member of the CIP, has allegedly arrived at a different set of conclusions to their own governing body regarding the degree of choke it is possible to fire standard steel through, or, for that matter, High Performance steel in less than 4mm shot size.

 

Very interesting they seem to have missed out 12 bores in the standard steel loads 

and hp steel 1/4 choke? 
even more confusing alongside the insurance recommendation 🙄

[d17 len]

Worth a look

[lancer425]

44 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

https://basc.org.uk/download/63109/?fbclid=IwAR1WJlvQMHB0oqQg8zBkimfGITnJZI5Q1DEbKD_6mEQfvFHA8OmqtEwO4Vc

This is a link to the BASC advice on the use of steel shot. Before you have me burnt at the stake as a heretic you need to know that the above advice comes straight from the CIP headquarters in Brussells, Belgium. Most of its members are EU countries, and includes GB, but it is not run by the EU and is an independent, international proof authority.

It performed extensive testing by firing thousands of cartridges through a large variety of guns before arriving at the advice that is given above.

I wonder how the London Proof House, a member of the CIP, has allegedly arrived at a different set of conclusions to their own governing body regarding the degree of choke it is possible to fire standard steel through, or, for that matter, High Performance steel in less than 4mm shot size.

 

The  SAMI rules are not as tolerant of chokes as the CIP rules are. I juggle between the two, i think given today’s modern guns its impractical not to.

Case in point look at 10ga, prof in SAmi   Recommends 12500psi and yet more for the 12ga 3.5 inch. The 10ga remains low to encompass grandfathers old lefever nitro ignoring the modern 10ga guns which are capable of handling pressures more a kin to the 12ga 3.5 inch.

 I think this very subject chokes although clearly explained in the cip guidance is ignored by many and i think the SAMI guidance on half choke with steel as the case for the 10ga and 16ga might i add need serious upgrading.

I think this leads to misinformation and confusion "as the prof house did in this 8 shots case" it is a shame the CIP and SAMI can not work together a little closer and at least get on the same page as one another on such matters.

[McSpredder]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

To be fair - these are recycled near 100% these days.  Secondly - I 'recycle' roughly 50 lbs of car battery lead about every 10 years per car, 3 cars, so 15 lbs a year - all recycled.

At one time we were regularly visited by people wanting to buy any old car batteries, so there must have been a good profit for them in those days.   Then the visitors stopped calling, and lots of old batteries were dumped by the roadside in rural areas.   I haven't seen so many dumped in our area recently, but a web search for "fly tipping" + "car battery" suggests it is still a problem in some places.

[Newbie to this]

6 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

At one time we were regularly visited by people wanting to buy any old car batteries, so there must have been a good profit for them in those days.   Then the visitors stopped calling, and lots of old batteries were dumped by the roadside in rural areas.   I haven't seen so many dumped in our area recently, but a web search for "fly tipping" + "car battery" suggests it is still a problem in some places.

Mine go to the scrapyard, they pay good money for an old battery. Got £10 I think for the last one.

[Scully]

While we’re on about ‘steel proofed’ guns, I thought it worth pointing out that those older Winchester’s which have ‘Winchester Superior Proofed Steel’ stamped onto the barrels are NOT steel shot proofed. The slogan was simply a marketing aspect of how strong Winchester claimed their barrels to be. Unless your old Winchester has been resubmitted for steel shot proof and bears the fleur de lye stamp, it is not steel shot proofed. 

[rbrowning2]

As far as I know the biggest source of lead for shot, I am told is from recycled car batteries. 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

As far as I know the biggest source of lead for shot, I am told is from recycled car batteries. 

Well if true, that's certainly going to change.

[motty]

18 hours ago, 8 shot said:

Now spoken to the London Proof House, and told......wait for it...... my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .🤔And will need reproofing if multi choked.   Straight from the horses mouth.

I think that is absolute ********!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just a bottom covering exercise!

Edited March 11, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[panoma1]

18 hours ago, 8 shot said:

Now spoken to the London Proof House, and told......wait for it...... my Miroku's 12 and 20 are ok for for standard steel👍, but "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES" through anything tighter than half, preferably less than that as cosmetic damage WILL be the result .🤔And will need reproofing if multi choked.   Straight from the horses mouth.

Understandable **** covering?

[lancer425]

Misinformation  and rear end  covering , nothing new on the rocky steel shot road.

[Stonepark]

19 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Understandable **** covering?

Yep - if your guns were produced after laws changed in USA to use steel, they should be fine with anything up to bb(4mm) at hp pressure as guns were made for World Market

Edited March 11, 2020 by Stonepark

[Scully]

7 hours ago, motty said:

I think that is absolute ********!

Ditto. 

[Rob85]

Came across this today on the Eley Twitter feed. Thought it might be useful for people regarding their proof marks

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, thanks to post, interesting they only advise half choke maximum with standard steel, and HV if i read correct, anyway its some years away if lead will be completely banned so plenty of time for most shooters to sort out their shotguns, more important the cartridge manufactures getting their act together and making what steel shot cartridges are required

[Old farrier]

41 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, thanks to post, interesting they only advise half choke maximum with standard steel, and HV if i read correct, anyway its some years away if lead will be completely banned so plenty of time for most shooters to sort out their shotguns, more important the cartridge manufactures getting their act together and making what steel shot cartridges are required

Years away 😂😂😂

this all depends upon what you’re landowner/ shoot/ game dealer say at the start of the season 

 

anyWay with the new voluntary ban/transition period

will all new game guns come in steel proof and will all game guns going for reproof be submitted for steel proof  ?

[ClemFandango]

On 10/03/2020 at 18:31, Whitebridges said:

I'd like to know what our government and movers and shakers are going to do about removing all these toxic carbuncles from the environment. Lead shot is teeny-weeny by comparison!

    

Very difficult for waterfowl, raptors or even humans to ingest a car battery. 

[andrewluke]

53 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

Very difficult for waterfowl, raptors or even humans to ingest a car battery. 

i bet my wife could

[McSpredder]

5 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

Very difficult for waterfowl, raptors or even humans to ingest a car battery. 

..... but a battery that has been dumped will eventually leak, and a mixture of sulphuric acid and lead sulphate may trickle into the nearest drain or watercourse.

Acids can increase the rate at which lead is absorbed into the blood (ie making it more toxic).   Even a very weak acid such as vinegar could make lead 10 times more likely to be absorbed into the blood, according to a paper from the Oxford Lead Symposium:   ".....  far more lead in the cooked gamebird meat was bioaccessible (soluble and available for absorption) in the simulated intestine phase when a recipe containing vinegar was used (6.75%) than when wine was used (4.51%) or than in uncooked partridge meat (0.7%)."

[ClemFandango]

2 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

..... but a battery that has been dumped will eventually leak, and a mixture of sulphuric acid and lead sulphate may trickle into the nearest drain or watercourse.

Acids can increase the rate at which lead is absorbed into the blood (ie making it more toxic).   Even a very weak acid such as vinegar could make lead 10 times more likely to be absorbed into the blood, according to a paper from the Oxford Lead Symposium:   ".....  far more lead in the cooked gamebird meat was bioaccessible (soluble and available for absorption) in the simulated intestine phase when a recipe containing vinegar was used (6.75%) than when wine was used (4.51%) or than in uncooked partridge meat (0.7%)."

Well yes. Obviously I was making a joke. 

 

considering the PH of stomach acid, how can vinegar have any bearing on lead absorption into the human body?