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Lead ban & BASC

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38 minutes ago, steve s×s said:

Is this the same rumour that says wild fowl are dieing from lead intakes, someone please show me one

Not rumour it was on Farming Today at 5.45 am with speakers from wildfowl trust and game conservancy

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As a long time supporter of BASC can I just remind us all that BASC have always stated that they will support the phasing out of Lead in the environment PROVIDING an economical , efficient alternative to Lead shot can be identified.

I have seen the development of soft iron ( steel?) shot price escalate to be more expensive than some Lead loads and although I prefer and use Tungsten it is very expensive .

If lead shot is so harmful to wildfowl  why is it that we have not seen significant increases in wildfowl population since the implementation of a leadshot ban for wildfowling?

If lead is so harmful to the environment why is it that many lead mining communities have not shown significant mortality figures ?

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57 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sporting targets do not want anyone to use steel on their ground because of the risk of ricochet.

 

 

That’s a pain if you’re wanting to practice before you go to shoot live quarry with it 

 

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Let's face it, normal cartridges have reduced in price over the years. They have never been so cheap. One study showed that if Eley Grand Prix was costed today at its real price of 60 years ago, it would now be over 75p per cartridge - and of course real incomes have risen in the same period. Steel loads with the new  biodegradable shotcups cost just  few pence more than good quality lead game cartridges.

Edited by stagboy

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2 minutes ago, stagboy said:

Let's face it, normal cartridges have reduced in price over the years. They have never been so cheap. One study showed that if Eley Grand Prix was costed today at its real price of 60 years ago, it would now be over 75p per cartridge - and of course real incomes have risen in the same period. Steel loads with the new  biodegradable shotcups cost just  few pence more than good quality lead game cartridges.

Oh that’s ok then, can you tell me the price for the 28gauge version please.

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9 minutes ago, stagboy said:

Let's face it, normal cartridges have reduced in price over the years. They have never been so cheap. One study showed that if Eley Grand Prix was costed today at its real price of 60 years ago, it would now be over 75p per cartridge - and of course real incomes have risen in the same period. Steel loads with the new  biodegradable shotcups cost just  few pence more than good quality lead game cartridges.

110% of the price for 60% of the efficiency … hardly a compelling step forwards.

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Well , every bad story has a silver lining ( don't use silver shot) . I am so grateful that for years I have shot Gamebore White Gold & Black Gold cartridges .

As we all know Gold is denser than steel (soft iron ) & Lead , so I should be good to GO(ld ) for years to come.🤣 

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22 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

110% of the price for 60% of the efficiency … hardly a compelling step forwards.

It's not until you stop laughing that you realise what a rational post this is and especially as efficiency was one of the criteria deemed necessary by all stakeholders for the introduction of NTS.

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If CG is still here, as this is for the benefit of the environment and wildlife, how about getting together again and pushing for VAT relief for all NTS catrridges on the grounds that affordability was one of the criteria agreed for its introduction?

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32 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Thanks for sharing TC.

The lack of consultation joke.

They can say voluntary all they like, I don't want to stop using the most efficient and effective way to do what I do. 

Unless that is of course BASC and the other so called shooting orgs lobby the government to subsidize TSS and Bismuth to sensible prices.

Steel is an alternative yes, but it is simply not the alternative. 

Edited by Farmboy91

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I see I have an email from sacs stating that this is a united stance from all the major organisations.

5 years should surely give everyone time to get ready for the change? Having shot pheasants and ducks with steel it’s not ideal but i guess it was always on the cards that this would happen. 

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11 hours ago, lancer425 said:

Hey i got a good idea!  Lets all drop out of BASC then it will fold we will have no representation,  we can then keep throwing lead all over the countryside because we want to and it will all go away. Sorted .

Absolutely, if we sit here with our heads up our backsides in our own little worlds, thinking that our organisations stand a chance of successfully arguing against phasing out lead, or phasing out non-recyclable single use plastics, then we will have nothing to shoot & nothing to shoot with when a ban comes in.

This statement shows foresight by the strongest shooting organisations in calling on us and manufacturers to work harder to provide affordable viable alternatives. The biodegradable wad cup is a huge step in the right direction. Economies of scale will kick in when we have critical mass buying these products, which means that we have to be open minded about alternatives & use them wherever possible.

I expect to have to open up a choke barrel to use some non HP steel in my SBS, and stick with the more modern guns for the HP stuff. I'd welcome better facilities to recycle cartridge cases.

If enough of us are clamouring for these products them someone will fill the gap in the market - and I don't see our main cartridge companies failing to grasp the opportunities. 

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12 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

Absolutely, if we sit here with our heads up our backsides in our own little worlds, thinking that our organisations stand a chance of successfully arguing against phasing out lead, or phasing out non-recyclable single use plastics, then we will have nothing to shoot & nothing to shoot with when a ban comes in.

This statement shows foresight by the strongest shooting organisations in calling on us and manufacturers to work harder to provide affordable viable alternatives. The biodegradable wad cup is a huge step in the right direction. Economies of scale will kick in when we have critical mass buying these products, which means that we have to be open minded about alternatives & use them wherever possible.

I expect to have to open up a choke barrel to use some non HP steel in my SBS, and stick with the more modern guns for the HP stuff. I'd welcome better facilities to recycle cartridge cases.

If enough of us are clamouring for these products them someone will fill the gap in the market - and I don't see our main cartridge companies failing to grasp the opportunities. 

Well it has taken them a very long time to be so environmentally concerned the biodegradable wad cup being used by Eley has been a round since at least March 2013 so they have taken seven years to reach this conclusion, makes you think does it not?

 

Edited by rbrowning2

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Does anyone really genuinely think that if lead is banned we will be left alone to do our passtime in peace, show me the Dead ducks 

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11 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

Absolutely, if we sit here with our heads up our backsides in our own little worlds, thinking that our organisations stand a chance of successfully arguing against phasing out lead, or phasing out non-recyclable single use plastics, then we will have nothing to shoot & nothing to shoot with when a ban comes in.

This statement shows foresight by the strongest shooting organisations in calling on us and manufacturers to work harder to provide affordable viable alternatives. The biodegradable wad cup is a huge step in the right direction. Economies of scale will kick in when we have critical mass buying these products, which means that we have to be open minded about alternatives & use them wherever possible.

I expect to have to open up a choke barrel to use some non HP steel in my SBS, and stick with the more modern guns for the HP stuff. I'd welcome better facilities to recycle cartridge cases.

If enough of us are clamouring for these products them someone will fill the gap in the market - and I don't see our main cartridge companies failing to grasp the opportunities. 

That is the stupid thing, We have been given such wrong info on steel by people/ orgs that should know better, the opening up choke thing?? I and many other wildfowlers wrecked mutilated and pointlessly opened up chokes, when in reality all we need have done is carry on with whatever the gun was choked at.  Full is fine with steel if you research it properly it is there in black and white.

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5 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

Innis Finlay of BASC says "I find a 32g or a 34g load in 3s perfect for the squirrels and more than capable of sorting the occasional carrion crow too"

steel a substitute for lead,i think not

https://basc.org.uk/steel---more-than-a-glance---innis-finlay/

Mmm 34g of 3's would be ideal through the little 410 folder I've just finished tidying up. 

 

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Just now, Farmboy91 said:

Mmm 34g of 3's would be ideal through the little 410 folder I've just finished tidying up. 

 

i would have thought that 34g of steel would be classed as "high performance" steel so would require superior steel proofing even in 12 bore,

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1 minute ago, andrewluke said:

i would have thought that 34g of steel would be classed as "high performance" steel so would require superior steel proofing even in 12 bore,

No no, it will be fine.

The powers at be know what they are talking about.

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