Sharks fins

[Piebob]

I don't see it that way. I can afford a day shooting rabbits with ferrets, I can afford a few cheapie pheasant days, I can't afford a grouse day and I certainly can't afford to shoot big game. But if money was no object, I'd be very tempted. The income to a proper set up from big game shooters is necessary for the running of the conservation measures - there are few other sources of income, and certainly none at the scale of hunting given that it'll cost up to $1M to shoot, say, a problem rhino.

I'm still unclear what the objection/problem is with the dentist example.  Is it the posing with a trophy thing? If someone quietly coughed up a million, travelled to Africa, shot a lion and an elephant or two, then made his way home without telling anyone how special they are - is that OK? 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

As a guest, I've been served it in soup. Quite honestly it doesn't taste of much - I understand that it's more about the consistency it imparts to the broth. In any event, it's very expensive and highly prized by Chinese. 

I’ve also had shark fin soup many years ago, I think I must have been about 10 years old and was excited to try it, my parents told me it was a delicacy. 
 

I tried it and roughly remember being unimpressed. Was like a pale soup with stringy bits in it. 

2 minutes ago, Piebob said:

I don't see it that way. I can afford a day shooting rabbits with ferrets, I can afford a few cheapie pheasant days, I can't afford a grouse day and I certainly can't afford to shoot big game. But if money was no object, I'd be very tempted. The income to a proper set up from big game shooters is necessary for the running of the conservation measures - there are few other sources of income, and certainly none at the scale of hunting given that it'll cost up to $1M to shoot, say, a problem rhino.

I'm still unclear what the objection/problem is with the dentist example.  Is it the posing with a trophy thing? If someone quietly coughed up a million, travelled to Africa, shot a lion and an elephant or two, then made his way home without telling anyone how special they are - is that OK? 

The problem with the dentist was that the “guide” apparently crossed into protected land and then they shot the famous lion, that all the tourists had named and attached Disney characteristics to. 
 

Same as 90% of dog owners attach human emotions and thinking to them. 

[grrclark]

29 minutes ago, Piebob said:

I don't see it that way. I can afford a day shooting rabbits with ferrets, I can afford a few cheapie pheasant days, I can't afford a grouse day and I certainly can't afford to shoot big game. But if money was no object, I'd be very tempted. The income to a proper set up from big game shooters is necessary for the running of the conservation measures - there are few other sources of income, and certainly none at the scale of hunting given that it'll cost up to $1M to shoot, say, a problem rhino.

I'm still unclear what the objection/problem is with the dentist example.  Is it the posing with a trophy thing? If someone quietly coughed up a million, travelled to Africa, shot a lion and an elephant or two, then made his way home without telling anyone how special they are - is that OK? 

That’s the nub of the argument, because we place a monetary worth on it then it somehow confers value in a wider than money sense.  Without any merest hint of suggesting anything dodgy on your part, if you suggested you could afford 30 mins with a skanky auld troll (cheapo hedge creeping pheasants), but not 4 hours with a 16yo nubile lassie (100mph grouse) does that make one less, or more, virtuous than the other?

The point is that someone who has the deepest of pockets and can afford to shoot a knackered auld lion that someone will guide him in to and feed it some jerky as he looses an arrow into its pus doesn’t make it ok because some local villagers can now afford a pie supper.  That is simply prostitution.

That says that we think money is always champion, that is dire.  I say that as a committed capitalist.

I add as an advisory note, i’ve had way too much red wine tonight and my punctuation and sentence structure is gonna be sketchy!!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, grrclark said:

That’s the nub of the argument, because we place a monetary worth on it then it somehow confers value in a wider than money sense.  Without any merest hint of suggesting anything dodgy on your part, if you suggested you could afford 30 mins with a skanky auld troll (cheapo hedge creeping pheasants), but not 4 hours with a 16yo nubile lassie (100mph grouse) does that make one less, or more, virtuous than the other?

The point is that someone who has the deepest of pockets and can afford to shoot a knackered auld lion that someone will guide him in to and feed it some jerky as he looses an arrow into its pus doesn’t make it ok because some local villagers can now afford a pie supper.  That is simply prostitution.

That says that we think money is always champion, that is dire.  I say that as a committed capitalist.

I add as an advisory note, i’ve had way too much red wine tonight and my punctuation and sentence structure is gonna be sketchy!!

Commonly known as Ditchmanitis!

[grrclark]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Commonly known as Ditchmanitis!

Just with a bit less lawnmowerfixeritus 😝

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, grrclark said:

Just with a bit less lawnmowerfixeritus 😝

Oh yes, it is well known that there are differing degrees of Ditchmanitis!

[grrclark]

8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh yes, it is well known that there are differing degrees of Ditchmanitis!

It sneaked up on me tonight, there was i busy booking flights for european and world fitasc’s Dave and before i knew it i was two bottles of red to the worse.  Too much red wine greed. 

On the (questionable) upside it was two free bottles of red in my hotel, a compensation for spending 60% of my sleeping life in a bed other than my own and i get £20 of free plonk 🤔

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Every cloud has a silver lining, just don't get so drunk you start buying useless carp on the bay!

[grrclark]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Every cloud has a silver lining, just don't get so drunk you start buying useless carp on the bay!

Thankfully an affliction from which i have never suffered.  A good friend of mine became a grudging owner of a way too expensive Nissan Figaro as a result of pished ebay bidding 🤣

Edit: I was hoping for a good theoretical conspiracist debate with Rewulf on another thread earlier, but he obv’s had better sense than I 😝

Edited February 26, 2020 by grrclark
Shameless baiting...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I reckon Rob is in bed and I am at work so out of the three of us, we are all doing something sensible!

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I reckon Rob is in bed and I am at work so out of the three of us, we are all doing something sensible!

My good sense is in doubt Dave, but let’s throw caution to the world  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just don't open a third bottle!

[grrclark]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Just don't open a third bottle!

Good lord, i’m not a left leaning anarchist! It’s a school night and there is a dollar to be made in the morning  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Good lord, i’m not a left leaning anarchist! It’s a school night and there is a dollar to be made in the morning  

[Houseplant]

Sharkfin soup is a sign of affluence in Chinese society. Most people think it is pretty tasteless, but it is not about taste. Shark meat is edible, some species better than others and the kind of people that go shark finning would certainly have access to shark meat markets. The simple fact is that if the fisherman keep the whole shark, then there is less room to store the highly profitable fins on the boat, so the rest of the animal is dumped. Millions of sharks are killed and dumped for their fins each year and it is big business. It is an appalling practice. 

[mel b3]

5 hours ago, grrclark said:

if you suggested you could afford 30 mins with a skanky auld troll (cheapo hedge creeping pheasants), but not 4 hours with a 16yo nubile lassie (100mph grouse) does that make one less, or more, virtuous than the other?

 

Now come on Graham,  we all know that any Scotsmen that could afford 4 hours with a 16yo  nubile lassie , would actually  spend the money on 2 bottles of red wine , and 10 hours with a skanky auld troll 😈.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

39 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Now come on Graham,  we all know that any Scotsmen that could afford 4 hours with a 16yo  nubile lassie , would actually  spend the money on 2 bottles of red wine , and 10 hours with a skanky auld troll 😈.

Hoist by one's own Petard!

[grrclark]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

Now come on Graham,  we all know that any Scotsmen that could afford 4 hours with a 16yo  nubile lassie , would actually  spend the money on 2 bottles of red wine , and 10 hours with a skanky auld troll 😈.

The wine was free Mel 😝

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

The wine was free Mel 😝

Are you considering going in to politics?

[12gauge82]

9 hours ago, Piebob said:

I don't see it that way. I can afford a day shooting rabbits with ferrets, I can afford a few cheapie pheasant days, I can't afford a grouse day and I certainly can't afford to shoot big game. But if money was no object, I'd be very tempted. The income to a proper set up from big game shooters is necessary for the running of the conservation measures - there are few other sources of income, and certainly none at the scale of hunting given that it'll cost up to $1M to shoot, say, a problem rhino.

I'm still unclear what the objection/problem is with the dentist example.  Is it the posing with a trophy thing? If someone quietly coughed up a million, travelled to Africa, shot a lion and an elephant or two, then made his way home without telling anyone how special they are - is that OK? 

The problem with a case like Cecil is simple, look at public perception of his killing, right the way around the world, lions are a vulnerable species and don't require commercial hunting. The damage done by that dentist wounding and then killing the lion the following day with a bow has done far more damage to public perception of all hunters than whatever good the money he paid to do it.

I will call out anyone involved in hunting or shooting I believe to be wrong, whether that's hunting of endangered or vulnerable species, illegal killing of BOP or as in the case of this thread killing sharks for their fins, in my opinion, those supporting any of these practices are part of the problem and could well be responsible for the end of hunting in this country due to the public turning against us.

I, like most on hear am a hunter, but I'm a conservationist first and believe you can't have sustainable hunting without putting sustainability first, whether that's on ethical or sustainable grounds.

[derbyduck]

15 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

And the skin used to be used for sandpaper.

It's a deplorable practice and has no place in a reasonable global society

hi I didn't say I had shark fin soup ! I had a shark steak and this was years ago before the beastly practice of Fining was even thought of .

[Pushandpull]

To pick up on the aside here re "trophy" hunting (a term which has been shamelessly misused).

Hunting of all sorts is an important support for both conservation and rural economies in many southern african (SACD) nations. It allows what we might call rewilding of huge areas and the regeneration of populations of less glamorous species such as Blacktailed Wildbeeste, while keeping locals tolerant of intrusions by the big beasts. There are enormous areas which are just not suitable for the tourist-truck photo safaris we see on the box. If you want to dip into the arguments from scientists (not hunters) including black people working there rather than white celebrities I would suggest starting by looking up prof adam hart twitter, which contains many informative links. You will have to pick through a lot of entomology and other stuff too, mind. The website africa sustainable conservation is also interesting.

[DoolinDalton]

I too find the killing of sharks, rhinos, etc, just for their fins/horns deplorable. Humans truly are the only species that destroys this world! 

[Penelope]

10 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

To pick up on the aside here re "trophy" hunting (a term which has been shamelessly misused).

Hunting of all sorts is an important support for both conservation and rural economies in many southern african (SACD) nations. It allows what we might call rewilding of huge areas and the regeneration of populations of less glamorous species such as Blacktailed Wildbeeste, while keeping locals tolerant of intrusions by the big beasts. There are enormous areas which are just not suitable for the tourist-truck photo safaris we see on the box. If you want to dip into the arguments from scientists (not hunters) including black people working there rather than white celebrities I would suggest starting by looking up prof adam hart twitter, which contains many informative links. You will have to pick through a lot of entomology and other stuff too, mind. The website africa sustainable conservation is also interesting.

A good example.

A FB page that I follow concerning the Zambezi Delta in Mozambique.

https://www.facebook.com/zdsconservation/

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Penelope

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

To pick up on the aside here re "trophy" hunting (a term which has been shamelessly misused).

Hunting of all sorts is an important support for both conservation and rural economies in many southern african (SACD) nations. It allows what we might call rewilding of huge areas and the regeneration of populations of less glamorous species such as Blacktailed Wildbeeste, while keeping locals tolerant of intrusions by the big beasts. There are enormous areas which are just not suitable for the tourist-truck photo safaris we see on the box. If you want to dip into the arguments from scientists (not hunters) including black people working there rather than white celebrities I would suggest starting by looking up prof adam hart twitter, which contains many informative links. You will have to pick through a lot of entomology and other stuff too, mind. The website africa sustainable conservation is also interesting.

It is a very complex discussion and I agree it’s wrong to take a polarised and simplistic view that is largely based on emotion, rather than substantive and objective consideration.