Teachers /coronavirus

[GingerCat]

10 minutes ago, figgy said:

That's my new Ditchman speshul spellcheker cz weeks bril.

To answer GingeCat, no I don't think being punished for doing wrong makes them the way they are. 

A nice shooting analogy,  air rifle limit is 12ftlb, willfully go over it and set your gun too high and get caught you get in all sorts of bother and maybe a few years in jail. Only a fool would risk it. Now if all you could get was a that's naughty so don't it please. Would the limit be adhered too. 

The saying play with fire you'll get burned is very apt for when I was a child. Do wrong get caught you'd be in for some pain. You had choices, be good or risk the pain. 

I never condone beating any child person or animal because you feel.like it or are having a bad day. 

That's the problem though isint it. There's always someone who gets  off hitting a child. There always was and there always will be. It's no different to domestic violence, after all if she wasn't "naughty" she wouldn't get a slap would she? 

My standards will be different to someone else's, that doesn't give me the right to knock a child senseless because they didn't meet my standards. Everyone I've ever talked to that was caned at school tells me about the sicko that caned them at evenry opportunity.and then the beating at home as the parents assumed they were in the right and the child wrong. 

I'm far from a shrinking violet but I won't tolerate someone hitting my child and the consequences would be biblical. 

 

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Everyone I've ever talked to that was caned at school tells me about the sicko that caned them at evenry opportunity.

Well, when I was at school they had corporal punishment but it was used pretty sparingly and only for the most egregious offences. I know that in this day and age it's considered barbaric but to be honest with you I never thought it so bad at the time. I've never, nor would I, hit my own kids because it would be at odds with how I see my role which is to be a protector and adviser. But if the system were still in place at their school I wouldn't be bouncing up and down if they got a handful of of shots occasionally.

I think for me, one of the 'good' things about corporal punishment was that you never had to crawl to anyone. You did something that you knew was wrong; you got caught; you took your medicine; and as far as everyone was concerned it was finished. These days as often as not you'd probably have to go into some kind of meeting, you'd have your motivations picked over by some woman in a hairy sweater, you'd have to say sorry to all and sundry, promise to behave in future, etc, etc. Now, for a hormonal adolescent that's basically institutionalized humiliation. You're forced to back down and crawl or you'll never hear the end of it. Caning was different. As I say, you took your medicine without squeaking and walked out with your head up  - as often as not smirking at the next poor sod about to go in as you passed him.

In truth though, it jolly well hurt and unless you were some kind of a masochist you'd quietly modify your behaviour to avoid having to go through it again. In other words it worked.

But of course these days it'll never come back so the discussion is purely academic.

[GingerCat]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Well, when I was at school they had corporal punishment but it was used pretty sparingly and only for the most egregious offences. I know that in this day and age it's considered barbaric but to be honest with you I never thought it so bad at the time. I've never, nor would I, hit my own kids because it would be at odds with how I see my role which is to be a protector and adviser. But if the system were still in place at their school I wouldn't be bouncing up and down if they got a handful of of shots occasionally.

I think for me, one of the 'good' things about corporal punishment was that you never had to crawl to anyone. You did something that you knew was wrong; you got caught; you took your medicine; and as far as everyone was concerned it was finished. These days as often as not you'd probably have to go into some kind of meeting, you'd have your motivations picked over by some woman in a hairy sweater, you'd have to say sorry to all and sundry, promise to behave in future, etc, etc. Now, for a hormonal adolescent that's basically institutionalized humiliation. You're forced to back down and crawl or you'll never hear the end of it. Caning was different. As I say, you took your medicine without squeaking and walked out with your head up  - as often as not smirking at the next poor sod about to go in as you passed him.

In truth though, it jolly well hurt and unless you were some kind of a masochist you'd quietly modify your behaviour to avoid having to go through it again. In other words it worked.

But of course these days it'll never come back so the discussion is purely academic.

My dad tells a different story, so did his brother (different school) and everyone else I've spoken to. Dealing with people all day I see a few things. One of the conclusions I can make is it wouldn't trust most people to make a cup of tea let alone discipline my child. 

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

My dad tells a different story, so did his brother (different school) and everyone else I've spoken to.

I suppose it depends who you speak to. But 'everyone' is a pretty broad brush stroke, that's all I was saying.

[GingerCat]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I suppose it depends who you speak to. But 'everyone' is a pretty broad brush stroke, that's all I was saying.

I get that. Put simply they have all told me they were beaten  by a teacher for no reason and daren't say anything at home for fear of another beating. That's not a society I want to live in. 

I'm not saying some kids aren't bad news and have nothing but a life of trouble ahead of them. I see it daily. I don't think beating them will make any difference and I'd rather not beat the ones that will be ok. If you have to hit someone it's because you have lost the ability to  engage them any other way. You have nothing left. It's a do as I say or I will hurt you attitude. It says a lot about the person who wants to dish it out. Every answer is to beat the kid as that's what they had and they are alright. Overlooking the casual violence against a child. No different to domestic violence. Worse perhaps. 

Violence is systemic in society but it can be avoided in regards to an adult hitting a child because the adult doesn't like it and is too thick to deal with it the kid any other way. 

[itchy trigger]

When I was at secondary school quite a few of the teachers were ex service from the war, as was my father, everyone knew where the line was, is was up to you if it was crossed. Never did any of us harm, learned some respect a thing that is lacking nowadays

Punishment be it cane, slipper, belt or skipping rope when meeted out was taken as due process, you didn’t take that home or a second reprimand would be forthcoming,

Around the time of my final year want to be’s started to fetch their parents when they had been punished, big mistake later in the playground

 

I had the option of teacher training college on leaving but could see the way it was going even then, wetback liberals often wonder how they would handle me and my kind now

[GingerCat]

Im presuming im a wetback liberal then itchy? 

[Lloyd90]

I’m amazed we manage to have such polite well behaved children these days, 99% of of children are decent nice family raised kids, they know right from wrong, help little old ladies cross the street and get on with life ... 

I’m shocked they’ve made it to age 10 without the need for someone to kick their heads in to learn how to behave like that. 
 

 

PS. Your delusional if you think they didn’t have naughty kids ‘back in the day’ ... kicking their heads in back then was as equally ineffective then as it is today. 

What some need to realise is, practically everyone on this forum is a decent law abiding person, who holds a SGC/FAC. When you had the odd misbehaviour as a child, if you hadn’t of been caned, you would have still turned out to be the decent folk you are today. I doubt that caning veered you away from becoming the next Jack the Ripper. 

[Retsdon]

Just now, GingerCat said:

Put simply they have all told me they were beaten  by a teacher for no reason and daren't say anything at home for fear of another beating.

Well that's a life wholly dominated by violence. My own father never, ever, hit me and if I'd have complained that I was being unfairly treated at school he'd have been on to the school to find out what was going on. So we're not comparing apples with apples here.

I agree that violence of any kind should always be a last resort. But some kids - especially adolescent boys - like to push the envelope to see how far it'll go. They're not bad- it's something that goes with the age - but push it they will. I think I was caned four times over a 6 year period at school. Once was for bullying  - which looking back I thoroughly deserved. The second was for stealing lead pipes from under a shed behind the local church. We'd sawn them up and hidden them in three big sports bags which with some difficulty we'd lifted up and pushed to the back on top of the lockers in the changing room while trying to find somewhere to sell the lead.  And we were found out when the school janitor got curious and managed to pull one of the bags off the top of the locker (he apparently thought it was stuck!) and nearly brained himself. The third was for organizing a petrol-bomb fight that finished up with one kid needing hospital treatment. And the fourth was for smoking - for the third time.

In at least two of those cases I'd probably end up with a criminal record these days. Then it was just take your medicine and don't do it again. Even now, if I were that age again I know which one I'd choose.

As I say, I don't think we're comparing apples with apples.

[B725]

One school in Buxton has been closed two of our engineers had been there this morning and have been sent home for two week's and the school is being disinfected to ensure it doesn't spread. One engineer only lives 50 yard's away from me, look's like I may have to paint a red cross on his door.

[Dave-G]

44 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Well that's a life wholly dominated by violence. My own father never, ever, hit me and if I'd have complained that I was being unfairly treated at school he'd have been on to the school to find out what was going on. So we're not comparing apples with apples here.

I agree that violence of any kind should always be a last resort. But some kids - especially adolescent boys - like to push the envelope to see how far it'll go. They're not bad- it's something that goes with the age - but push it they will. I think I was caned four times over a 6 year period at school. Once was for bullying  - which looking back I thoroughly deserved. The second was for stealing lead pipes from under a shed behind the local church. We'd sawn them up and hidden them in three big sports bags which with some difficulty we'd lifted up and pushed to the back on top of the lockers in the changing room while trying to find somewhere to sell the lead.  And we were found out when the school janitor got curious and managed to pull one of the bags off the top of the locker (he apparently thought it was stuck!) and nearly brained himself. The third was for organizing a petrol-bomb fight that finished up with one kid needing hospital treatment. And the fourth was for smoking - for the third time.

In at least two of those cases I'd probably end up with a criminal record these days. Then it was just take your medicine and don't do it again. Even now, if I were that age again I know which one I'd choose.

As I say, I don't think we're comparing apples with apples.

You were lucky to have a father who could cope, mine couldn't, he shouldn't have been allowed to have kids. I bottled out of jumping off a cliff or tin mine engine stack a couple of times. I was under the impression that treatment wasn't too far from the norm in those days so didn't speak of it. I concede I was a difficult kid to manage and have become aware over the years that I had some kind of lack of attention and learning issues that weren't known about at the time. 

Just three memories I have of that nature. He was a powerful man who pulled a wooden handle leather strap on plough to make the furrows to plant tatters in our orchard - that I had to dig over first - aged about 5.

Towel wrapped around our mouths while we had the buckle end of his belt - whilst saying it hurt him more than it hurts us.  That was for back answering grandmother who child minded us while he was away.

Sauce bottle thrown at my head for watching him beat mother while I polished his shoes before going to school: the bottle glanced off my skull and broke the kitchen window which got me a beating for trying to duck it - told to tell the hospital I had fell over when having the stitches.

We were too scared of waking him during the night so peed out our bedroom window when we couldn't wait, eventually got a thrashing for that because he had to get the subsequently rotted wooden window casing changed.

It was what it was - and I think that sort of treatment is what led to kids who got it not wanting to even slap their own kids when needed.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Dave-G

[Retsdon]

16 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

It was what it was - and I think that sort of treatment is what led to kids who got it not wanting to even slap their own kids when needed.

That's absolutely hellish Dave. But I don't believe that  kids ever need to be slapped. If someone can't built up a strong enough bond between themselves and their kids that they can' t get them to behave then they're doing something wrong. I pull my father's old trick which was to look hurt and disappointed.  He'd give me this sad despairing look and  I'd feel so guilty about letting him down that I would immediately shape up  - and it's a stratagem that seems to work with my own kids just as well. 

The school was different. There was no trust or empathy with the adults there - they were just teachers or whatever, and the cane was just the formal sanction of last resort. And for me anyway, it was water off a duck's back and probably far less stressful than having to undergo some kind of behavioral analysis or whatever. Not comparable to your experiences at all. I"m still shaking my head...

[GingerCat]

And that's my point. All this learn some respect (fear) or never did me any harm (ignorance), wet back liberal  etc, is twaddle. Some people like to hurt others and they don't care too much who it is, makes them feel better as they do it im sure. Harking back to days of never was and rose tints to justify it. 

 

[grrclark]

14 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Exactly.  Anyone returning from the Continent or for that matter anywhere at the moment should be placed on a self imposed quarantine. If they would not comply then non self imposed.  Four weeks and the whole thing would be sorted.

What utter nonsense!

[Penelope]

13 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Well, when I was at school they had corporal punishment but it was used pretty sparingly and only for the most egregious offences. I know that in this day and age it's considered barbaric but to be honest with you I never thought it so bad at the time. I've never, nor would I, hit my own kids because it would be at odds with how I see my role which is to be a protector and adviser. But if the system were still in place at their school I wouldn't be bouncing up and down if they got a handful of of shots occasionally.

I think for me, one of the 'good' things about corporal punishment was that you never had to crawl to anyone. You did something that you knew was wrong; you got caught; you took your medicine; and as far as everyone was concerned it was finished. These days as often as not you'd probably have to go into some kind of meeting, you'd have your motivations picked over by some woman in a hairy sweater, you'd have to say sorry to all and sundry, promise to behave in future, etc, etc. Now, for a hormonal adolescent that's basically institutionalized humiliation. You're forced to back down and crawl or you'll never hear the end of it. Caning was different. As I say, you took your medicine without squeaking and walked out with your head up  - as often as not smirking at the next poor sod about to go in as you passed him.

In truth though, it jolly well hurt and unless you were some kind of a masochist you'd quietly modify your behaviour to avoid having to go through it again. In other words it worked.

But of course these days it'll never come back so the discussion is purely academic.

As above.

[Mice!]

Well I heard on the news last night that Japan has closed schools for a month to fight the spread.

[pigeon controller]

I will raise my head above the parapet and throw in my two pence worth.

My son and daughter law are both secondary school teachers teaching IT and Science. The school has 1500 pupils and is part of a trust of four schools. During term time both there none teaching time is taken up covering other teachers off sick , mainly with stress. They rarely  get to bed before midnight  during the week and watch no television eating there tea whilst marking or planning the next day's teaching. The work thay have marked has to be imputed into the students record so that if a parent phones up and asked how there child is performing it is up to date, this is insisted on by the pyramid of none teaching staff above them. 

The average sleep pattern on there Fitbit  devices is five hours during weekdays.

Any confrontation with a child has to be reported and usually met by an aggressive parent visiting the school at which the they have no support from superiors and usually aske to apologise. My son intervened  between two pupils who were fighting and now has a permanent bent little finger as the ligerment is damaged. His superiors told him he should not have got between them but told them the stop!!!!!!

They are bombarded by texts and emails seven days a week  for reports for superiors which are sent well into the night and require immediate answers as they are required the next day, no forward planning.

Verbal  abuse is the norm, disrupted children are told to attend after school detention and don't , the TRUST will not exclude disruptive children as it will go against them on the Offstead report. They take on disruptive children as they receive extra money for teaching them. 

When trying to encourage students to learn so that they can leave school he asks, "  What  do you want to be " the two main answers are as follows:-

Go on the dole like my Mom ,Dad and Grandad!!

Be a drug dealer three grand an week and a BMW!!

The disruptive students rule the school , the teaching staff have no support but they both want to be Teachers. By Friday they are exhausted and it take the weekend to recover. They spend the time forward planning and catching up. We have a family Sunday dinner at which they both bring work to do. Yes they have 13 weeks holiday a year  but they need it to survive.

They both arrange trips out of school and a two week camp in summer at which they teach mountain cycling, canoeing,rock climbing and generally allow the better students to see the countryside and even the sea, which some have never seen

i would not do that job for any amount of money

 

Sorry, Rant over.

Edited February 29, 2020 by pigeon controller

[GingerCat]

11 minutes ago, pigeon controller said:

I will raise my head above the parapet and throw in my two pence worth.

My son and daughter law are both secondary school teachers teaching IT and Science. The school has 1500 pupils and is part of a trust of four schools. During term time both there none teaching time is taken up covering other teachers off sick , mainly with stress. They rarely  get to bed before midnight  during the week and watch no television eating there tea whilst marking or planning the next day's teaching. The work thay have marked has to be imputed into the students record so that if a parent phones up and asked how there child is performing it is up to date, this is insisted on by the pyramid of none teaching staff above them. 

Any confrontation with a child has to be reported and usually met by an aggressive parent visiting the school at which the they have no support from superiors and usually aske to apologise. My son intervened  between two pupils who were fighting and now has a permanent bent little finger as the ligerment is damaged. His superiors told him he should not have got between them but told them the stop!!!!!!

They are bombarded by texts and emails seven days a week  for reports for superiors which are sent well into the night and require immediate answers as they are required the next day, no forward planning.

Verbal  abuse is the norm, disrupted children are told to attend after school detention and don't , the TRUST will not exclude disruptive children as it will go against them on the Offstead report. They take on disruptive children as they receive extra money for teaching them. 

When trying to encourage students to learn so that they can leave school he asks, "  What  do you want to be " the two main answers are as follows:-

Go on the dole like my Mom ,Dad and Grandad!!

Be a drug dealer three grand an week and a BMW!!

The disruptive students rule the school , the teaching staff have no support but they both want to be Teachers. By Friday they are exhausted and it take the weekend to recover. Yes they have 13 weeks holiday a year  but they need it to survive.

They both arrange trips out of school and a two week camp in summer at which they teach mountain cycling, canoeing,rock climbing and generally allow the better students to see the countryside and even the sea, which some have never seen

i would not do that job for any amount of money

 

Sorry, Rant over.

I know a lot of teachers and they all say similar. Wouldn't do it for all the tea in China. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, pigeon controller said:

The disruptive students rule the school , the teaching staff have no support but they both want to be Teachers. By Friday they are exhausted and it take the weekend to recover. Yes they have 13 weeks holiday a year  but they need it to survive.

Certainly not a job for me even with all those holidays, everyone likes to bash the teachers but I doubt many could do the job.

[Big Al]

Only spotted this thread. I qualified as a teacher in 1991, so almost 30 years experience. I'm Deputy Head in mainstream primary school and I certainly don't earn 50K (pay structure is different in NI.) I'm responsible for KS2, Literacy, Numeracy, Child Protection as well as my DH duties. Oh, and I have a class of 35 10/11 year olds ( including 4 Statements of Special Educational needs, including Downs Syndrome and Autism.)

My days fly in - I'm very busy all the time and that is one of the bonuses. I never clock watch. 

Things have changed a lot since I started - but the kids haven't.  They are challenging but great fun. The teacher who is old school won't last too long. Parents are the biggest problem, and partly because of the perceived injustices they received at school. The parents primary concern is not education, but that their children are happy. It is up to the teacher / school leadership to strike the balance between the two. At times I have called it "Edutainment."

Within the last month, extraordinary duties have included the removal of drug - fuelled , highly aggressive parents and being reported for all manner of nasty things for refusing to lie on a DLA form. Staffing issues are always a doozy because you are dealing with menopausal women.

I'm approaching early retirement age now and am more grateful than ever for the holidays. They are brilliant but I'd be a frazzled wreck without them.

Edit to say that i have the immune system of an ox as I am daily exposed to every germ, bacteria and virus in the country.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Big Al
To add a bit

[steve1066]

On 26/02/2020 at 22:56, The Heron said:

They couldn't wait could they any excuse not to do any work schools closing despite being advised not to do so the sooner this government gets hold of this pampered profession the better and please don't tell me about tough iner City schools they aren't all like that take Christmas for example 3 weeks off and they decide to have a sobering up day sorry inset day the profession is a joke. 

 

[jason g]

It's easy to pass comments on other peoples profession maybe you should try teaching not many have the mettal to last. I wish I got 3 weeks off 20 days plus bank holidays I get like many other professions. Lots of inner city schools have it tough given the society we all live in

[The Heron]

2 hours ago, jason g said:

It's easy to pass comments on other peoples profession maybe you should try teaching not many have the mettal to last. I wish I got 3 weeks off 20 days plus bank holidays I get like many other professions. Lots of inner city schools have it tough given the society we all live in

Well you took your time to respond I wish I had a quarter of the year off if you had bothered to read my post fully you would see I recognised the difficulties with iner City schools but they are not all like that, if I could reply to an earlier post if you cannot afford a2 paper then I suggest that you look closely at your accounts as it would appear that money is dissappearing from your budget to another area to suggest that you have had to supply paper is unlikely let's carry on this the starting salary for a teacher is way above what any apprentice  can hope to attain and yet teachers do nothing but complain finally if the job is that stressful then leave but then you might have to have a job with continental shifts that means working Christmas day Easter etc main holidays when you are told and only 10 working days at once if granted and applied for months in advance yes I have been subject to this so like so many other moaning people count your blessings 

[jason g]

Education differs from area to area when budgets are cut restrictions are made unfortunately. I'm not on the wage of a typical school teacher I do the job out of choice working with disadvantaged children who have been part of some form of abuse. I wish things were different. I worked In a hgv garage and decided to get out of that trade I would rather teach so I have seen both sides. Government needs to get there act together and as was said in an earlier post when teachers have to take work home and do all the other things both schools and parents expect who's there to thank them no amount of money is worth mental wellbeing