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Chokes and steel


getthegat
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Just wondering how steel shot is affected by different chokes, for instance I think I'm right in saying you cannot use too tight a choke with steel shot, but what is considered "too tight" I have a gun with fixed chokes and if lead becomes a thing of the past, what if anything will happen to fixed choke guns? Is the pattern of steel upset by a tight choke and is it correct that steel limits range? Also will one need to go up or down on pellet size? I'm all for conservation and use fibre wad cases, and, degradeable material makes sense; anything to protect the future of our sport.

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steel deforms less than lead when fired so requires allot less choke because it patterns tighter. unless the choke is stamped steel proof dont go above half choke. even then i really wouldn't recommencement it. a half choke on steel will throw something similar to 3/4 to  full in lead so its plenty. another rule of thumb is go 2 shot sizes up so if you use 6 go to the size equivalent of lead 4. now it gets tricky. steel shot is sized smaller than lead  so a lead 4 is in fact  a steel 5.

 if you shoot  30g of lead 6, a good pigeon steel load will be something like 32g of steel 5 that will give you roughly the same pellet count  and energy per  pellet.  even then id advise getting a bit of practice in. Not saying steel shoots better or worse than lead(cannot be bothered to get into that again this week) but it is different you definitely need to get used to its velocity curve  it seems to start faster than lead then  slow down quicker. so close birds need less lead than lead  further out need way more. and i think its this not the killing potential that generates hate for steel.  People are just not used to  its characteristics 

 

 

short version-  if you use a standard 30g of 6 pigeon load- use a steel cartridge stamped 32g of 5. 1/4 choke is plenty at decoying ranges if youre roost shooting wear eye protection steel will bounce.  dont shoot anything that says high performance on the box if you cant find the fleur de lys  (boy scouts badge) stamped on your barrels.  and give it more than a box of cartridges before you write it off as trash 

 

Edited by Sweet11-87
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From what I've read at the time, way back when, when this stuff was being talked about in the US magazines in the 1970s when I was in my twenties it used to be said that the less the choke the tighter the pattern with steel and the more the choke (up to the supposed safe maximum choke at about half choke) the more open the pattern. But I have no practical experience of using the stuff but maybe some that have can confirm or correct? Is it still the case?

Edited by enfieldspares
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It is not that straight forward. Yes steel patterns tighter than lead. For example if you look at the chokes supplied with my browning gold ten bore then they are stated as both lead and steel. A lead half is a steel full. The fact is that you have to pattern with your chosen cartridge or load. My wildfowl guns aren’t patterned at 60m. Those of us who shoot geese on the shore using semi autos generally use after market chokes such as Kikz. They are used in anything between half and extra full and then with large shot. The benefit is the pressure on the choke is outside the barrel and they are designed for steel.

if you have a fixed choke gun the recommendation is no more than half choke and that is the rule I have followed with my AYA no 3 bored to this. 
 

Quite simply it is a question of experimenting within safe limits. Steel is no different to lead in that you have to find the right cartridge, choke, combination for your type of shooting.

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1 minute ago, enfieldspares said:

From what I've read it used to be said that the less the choke the tighter the pattern with steel and the more the choke (up to the supposed safe maximum choke at about half choke) the more open the pattern. But I have no practical experience of using the stuff but maybe some that have can confirm or correct?

Choke is constriction, in lead or steel or anything. Its comparative up to a point, and not a very clear one. Only way of knowing what any barrel or now with multi chokes and barrel and choke combination is producing is by testing it on the pattern plate.

This choke that choke all well and good  but not always clearly defined as the constriction might indicate it would be.

The aftermarket choke world has some gems that were born out of a need to improve steel patterns. Notably when higher velocities were used. "Not SO popular these days with steel" .  Constrictions way tighter than any typical lead choke are often used for steel even big steel.

Decide what you are looking to kill then look at the load and see how the chokes you have are performing, try others you might have and it could be you find something that works suitably for your requirements. If not it could be a change of choke to an after market choke gets you what you want/ need.

In the early days of steel a lot of misguided un tested info was routenely given by a lot of orgs and gun firms. These were born out of fear and pure ignorance, and today really need evaluating, if we are to get those new to steel access to all the real facts.

 

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9 minutes ago, getthegat said:

Wow that's really useful guys, thanks. One last question; can a fixed choke be bored and threaded to take a screw in choke? I see no reason why not,  it's just a straight forward machine job, but will it affect the  guns proofing?

Yes it can , but you do not necessarily need to do anything to a fixed choke gun to get it to pattern on any shot type. in ways it is good in that you are only dealing with the load and all aspects of that load.  Not any variables thrown up by a swap in choke tube.

  But a fixed choke is what it is, and when you done all you can tried every variable , you are left with what that barrel will do. It is the same with every barrel but with interchangeable chokes you can come at it from a different direction and lots of times. Having said all that you can often find something that works fine for your needs anyway with the fixed choke gun. .

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Ignoring the choke aspect for a minute, let's just look at the shot sizes. There is an explanation and table that is probably worth a look on the BASC lead shot thread. Suffice to say it's necessary to go up 2 shot sizes if you want steel shot to match the energy of lead. For known good reason this will not match the efficiency of lead though. So our 6 lead means 4 steel and a steel 4 is a lead 3. Eh? Yes. Initially it was to go up 3 shot sizes which meant that steel was losing credibility so the nominal size was amended to go up one physical size for the same size code. In short to equate the steel to lead for simple energy it is not a case of going up 2 lead sizes, which, yes would equate to steel 5 but going up 2 sizes from the lead 6 to steel 4 which equates to lead 3 and it will be realised that we're back at the original up 3 sizes. As mentioned on the above mentioned thread, it's not always necessary to match the two performances in terms of simple energy. The trick is ensuring sufficient efficiency.

Yes, you can have multi chokes installed - see Teague Chokes for example - and yes again the gun will need a re- proof

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52 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

i honestly wouldnt go getting a barrel reemed out and threaded  then re proofed. be cheaper just to buy a cheap beater. the hatsan escort is  3"  and performance steel proofed and dirt cheap

I doubt very much that I'd reem and reproof, none of my guns are worth the cost. I could get the machining done easily enough, but the reproof is probably a step to far. I'm just a bit worried if lead disappears, a lot of fixed choke guns could be obsolete, especially anything over 1/2 choke. I must say, being pretty much a pigeon and corvid shooting only, I've not really looked into steel shot much before, but there was an article in this months Sporting Shooter saying lead could disappear in 5 years. I was unaware of the shot size minefield, so some bedtime reading there I think.

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3 hours ago, getthegat said:

Wow that's really useful guys, thanks. One last question; can a fixed choke be bored and threaded to take a screw in choke? I see no reason why not,  it's just a straight forward machine job, but will it affect the  guns proofing?

Yes it can and yes it will, as in yes, the work can be done, and yes it will effect the guns proof, rendering it necessary to reproof. I’m not really convinced multi chokes are necessary if you’re referring to a steel dedicated gun; why not just have it bored out to half, and then it’s good for everything, including HP steel. 

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34 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yes it can and yes it will, as in yes, the work can be done, and yes it will effect the guns proof, rendering it necessary to reproof. I’m not really convinced multi chokes are necessary if you’re referring to a steel dedicated gun; why not just have it bored out to half, and then it’s good for everything, including HP steel. 

🤔👍

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