Rewulf Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Bobba said: Such a system would also mop up what is currently illegal use I've spoken to various acquaintances in the travelling community, and they feel there's an excellent case for taking this to the ECGR {EU court of gypsy rights} 🙄 As it would obviously infringe their rights to roam freely, and not pay anything like taxs ect. The only way they would 'allow' such a thing, is if diesel theft is decriminalised, and councils pay them a subsidy for enriching the area they are currently occupying. Otherwise they will have to use the race card 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, wascal said: HMRC were at Norwich Market a few years back dipping landys and they tried to dip my discovery . "But I've just left the calor gas showroom " says I "doesn't matter!!" says the smug clipboard man "It's a v8 petrol running on LPG " I smirked back Some years back I was requested to pull into a lay-by in Scotland . The HMRC officer said we are dipping tanks , I was in a 3.9 Range Rover and he was surprised it was petrol?? Being serious , can not legitimate users claim back the difference annually when submitting tax returns?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: I've spoken to various acquaintances in the travelling community, and they feel there's an excellent case for taking this to the ECGR {EU court of gypsy rights} 🙄 As it would obviously infringe their rights to roam freely, and not pay anything like taxs ect. The only way they would 'allow' such a thing, is if diesel theft is decriminalised, and councils pay them a subsidy for enriching the area they are currently occupying. Otherwise they will have to use the race card 😉 Are these the traveler's that have to have permanent pitches because they don't like travelling 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 52 minutes ago, pigeon controller said: Being serious , can not legitimate users claim back the difference annually when submitting tax returns?? Such a system is open to abuse, I use red for heating my garage premises, how much do I use ? 2 gallons a week , or 10 gallons a week, how would they check? Or is that not considered legitimate use ? 49 minutes ago, The Heron said: Are these the traveler's that have to have permanent pitches because they don't like travelling 😂 Thems will be the ones 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbob Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/input-prices/fury-over-chancellors-plans-to-scrap-red-diesel-duty-rate This could be the nail in coffin for my dad and brother. I work in construction but still have close ties to farming. Its hard enough to make any money in farming and effectively doubling fuel duty will cripple them. The report as mentioned before suggests the construction industry will bear the brunt but the government will slide farm vehicles in somehow Im sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Correct me someone if I am wrong but I understood that the duty on white diesel was a road tax. Duty free red for farmers who also used the roads but harked back to post war when the populace were glad of our farmers helping feed us from the hungry war time days. Road duty ? Why should it apply to boat fuel? If duty free is withdrawn to food producers it can only mean an increase in food prices, could also mean producers going out of business with loss of revenue from other taxes. Recreation sea angling afloat would also be hard hit with charter fees soaring and again the prospect of business failure. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Its not duty free, the tax on white diesel is an additional tax 10 minutes ago, Blackpowder said: Correct me someone if I am wrong but I understood that the duty on white diesel was a road tax. Duty free red for farmers who also used the roads but harked back to post war when the populace were glad of our farmers helping feed us from the hungry war time days. Road duty ? Why should it apply to boat fuel? If duty free is withdrawn to food producers it can only mean an increase in food prices, could also mean producers going out of business with loss of revenue from other taxes. Recreation sea angling afloat would also be hard hit with charter fees soaring and again the prospect of business failure. Blackpowder you are correct, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 10 hours ago, pigeon controller said: Being serious , can not legitimate users claim back the difference annually when submitting tax returns?? How would that work in practice? It would create a massive administrative burden. My brother's ancient diesel cement mixer, for instance, doesn't exactly have an hour meter. No, a true conservative government would be simplifying the tax system, and getting rid of headaches like this for small businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 "Meanwhile, the chancellor is expected to scrap a subsidy on diesel used by the farming and construction sector in an effort to encourage a switch to greener alternative fuel vehicles and help the UK meet its climate change targets." I'm sure it's not cheap! I suppose in the long-run these machines will trickle down into the second hand market but that'll take a few years. In the meantime what are the smaller, less profitable enterprises that buy their tractors second hand supposed to do? Oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 14 hours ago, Blackpowder said: Correct me someone if I am wrong but I understood that the duty on white diesel was a road tax. Duty free red for farmers who also used the roads but harked back to post war when the populace were glad of our farmers helping feed us from the hungry war time days. Road duty ? Why should it apply to boat fuel? If duty free is withdrawn to food producers it can only mean an increase in food prices, could also mean producers going out of business with loss of revenue from other taxes. Recreation sea angling afloat would also be hard hit with charter fees soaring and again the prospect of business failure. Blackpowder Maybe that's the socially engineered part they are aiming for? Looking back maybe the unelected EU idiots are better than home grown? Likely too, our fishing grounds will be given away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 13:13, Rewulf said: Heresay and political mischief , by BBC and other lefty media, its all they have left to do . The tories are not out to alienate their new found voters with tax hikes like this, it defies logic. Farmers need to be on side when it comes to stuff like this, particularly with the uncertainty regarding what is replacing CAP. The fishing industry likewise, as it seems to be the weapon of the moment used in EU trade negotiations. And , thats without the multitude of people running heating, marine and plant, possibly running into the hundreds of thousands, people who would NOT be voting tory next time. Not the first time a chancellor has threatened it. And thats all it is , a threat. £2.5 billion isnt worth losing the impetus of BJs plans at this time. Its simply not happening. you were saying?... From what I've seen the farmers will be spared but apparently agriculture only accounts for 7% of red diesel consumption in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted March 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Farmers and rail will be spared every one else pays full price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 18:56, Vince Green said: AFAIK Canal boats etc have always run on red diesel, You can run anything on red diesel as long as it doesn't have wheels on the public highway. Thats what I thought. DERV =diesel engined road vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: you were saying?.. Not happening for 2 years, and that's a long time in politics, besides the fact that due to a, shall we say 'parting of the ways beginning with B' next year, according to you, that's the least of our worries! 42 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: agriculture only accounts for 7% of red diesel consumption in the UK As a good bit of that is liberated into the tanks of our resident travelling 'folk', I wonder where the rest goes, is construction really the biggest user? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Not happening for 2 years, and that's a long time in politics, besides the fact that due to a, shall we say 'parting of the ways beginning with B' next year, according to you, that's the least of our worries! As a good bit of that is liberated into the tanks of our resident travelling 'folk', I wonder where the rest goes, is construction really the biggest user? To be sure to be sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 It's funny,,,they announce massive infrastructure projects all using massive machinery all running red diesel......now when all these works suddenly go way up in price will any of the boffins put 2 and 2 together!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Not happening for 2 years, and that's a long time in politics, besides the fact that due to a, shall we say 'parting of the ways beginning with B' next year, according to you, that's the least of our worries! As a good bit of that is liberated into the tanks of our resident travelling 'folk', I wonder where the rest goes, is construction really the biggest user? Nice try, but you were wrong 😛 36 minutes ago, millrace said: It's funny,,,they announce massive infrastructure projects all using massive machinery all running red diesel......now when all these works suddenly go way up in price will any of the boffins put 2 and 2 together!!!!!! Indeed, one of the points I was coming to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 On the TV local news recently, there was a report with video footage of private vehicles pulling up at the pumps of a Birmingham fuel wholesaler filling up with Red Diesel and driving away!.......if this criminality is widespread? No wonder the government acted!.......once again it is the few criminals that spoil it for genuine users! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbyduck Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, millrace said: It's funny,,,they announce massive infrastructure projects all using massive machinery all running red diesel......now when all these works suddenly go way up in price will any of the boffins put 2 and 2 together!!!!!! it starts at the rock bottom ! Tunsted cement quarry uses 2 -3 tankers of red diesel every week for explosive just to blast the rock ,then the work starts with shovels , dumpers and a host of other vehicles ,then the cement goes to the sites by tankers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Nice try, but you were wrong When it happens I'm wrong, there's 2 years of people protesting about it yet. At the moment it's just a threat 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 16 hours ago, Rewulf said: When it happens I'm wrong, there's 2 years of people protesting about it yet. At the moment it's just a threat 😏 Aha, a bit like the unmentionable then 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 21 hours ago, millrace said: It's funny,,,they announce massive infrastructure projects all using massive machinery all running red diesel......now when all these works suddenly go way up in price will any of the boffins put 2 and 2 together!!!!!! Maybe Fiona was in the back room doing the maths for this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Aha, a bit like the unmentionable then 😉 Exactly 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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