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Reloading For shot gun and rifle


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 Hi I had an interesting conversation today with an older gentleman (Well older than me anyway so he must be old)  about reloading shotgun cartridges,  basically he was saying that if you reload your own you’re not insured,  he also said that my local clay  ground won’t let you shoot home loads  because of no insurance. I haven’t heard this before and never really thought about it until today, 

So I thought I would throw this one out to the  knowledgeable  pigeonWatch massive.

 Thoughts please 

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To what specific insurance do you refer?
Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover?

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10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

To what specific insurance do you refer?
Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover?

 Insurance you are provided with when you join one of the shooting organisations. 

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9 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Registered clay shoots don’t allow homeloads for obvious reasons.

 Okay thanks,  not that I would need to load for clays anyway  it’s more if you were shooting in the field With home roads would you be insured,  I don’t reload for shotgun at the moment but I’ve been looking into it 

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16 hours ago, panoma1 said:

To what specific insurance do you refer?
Generally I suspect, and I don’t know definitively? If you reload from published, proof tested data, I imagine you would be ok? But if you wildcat loads.....you may, in the event of an accident, Leave yourself liable to a claim, and void any insurance cover?

 

16 hours ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Insurance you are provided with when you join one of the shooting organisations. 

 

2 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Oh, silly me. I was under the distinct impression that we hadn't pinpointed which BASC insurance we were discussing.

If it is the insurance that comes with your membership it will invariably be 3rd party insurance.

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1) Generally the venue's insurance will not cover them if a third party is injured by another third party who is using homeloads. The scenario would be that Joe Shooter is using his his homeloads and the scorer standing next to the cage is injured by debris from Joe Shooter's gun as it explodes owing to his unsafe handloads. 

2)Additionally in this litigation prone day and age your won insurer (if indeed you are covered) may want to see evidence that you have submitted your homeloads to either Proof House for test.

3) Lastly the manufacturer or your gun/supplier of your gun will also attempt to walk away from any liability if homeloads are used. 

Item 1) is usually on the range rules of rules of the venue "No Homeloads" and item 3) is sometimes to be found in the booklet that comes with the gun when new.  Item 2) is usually as you've breached the principle of uberimmae fidei that applies to insurance. Homeloads = possible increased risk = you should have declared it.

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This has been the rule for decades.  Back in the late 60s and early 70s I used to load all the practise shells for our clay team and used a PW 375 producing some good quality shells BUT we always used factory for competitions.  I think is must have been late 70s and it was suggested that we should not be able to use reloads in the future....long time ago... on the clay ground we used for practise.   

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2 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

1) Generally the venue's insurance will not cover them if a third party is injured by another third party who is using homeloads. The scenario would be that Joe Shooter is using his his homeloads and the scorer standing next to the cage is injured by debris from Joe Shooter's gun as it explodes owing to his unsafe handloads. 

2)Additionally in this litigation prone day and age your won insurer (if indeed you are covered) may want to see evidence that you have submitted your homeloads to either Proof House for test.

3) Lastly the manufacturer or your gun/supplier of your gun will also attempt to walk away from any liability if homeloads are used. 

Item 1) is usually on the range rules of rules of the venue "No Homeloads" and item 3) is sometimes to be found in the booklet that comes with the gun when new.  Item 2) is usually as you've breached the principle of uberimmae fidei that applies to insurance. Homeloads = possible increased risk = you should have declared it.

And so all the above would also be true if you were using steel shot in a gun that was never designed to use it or not proofed for it.

home loading has been going on for decades, pistols, rifles and shotguns so not a new activity, so I would think insurance designed for shooting would cover home loading but may be David basc will comment.

CPSA rules ban home loads in competitions,  but they would won’t they.

 

 

Edited by rbrowning2
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with this lead ban supposed to be in 5 years   if your gun is not steel proof and you use factory steel loads in it if anything happens the gun maker will not help  your insurance will not help nor the cartridge maker they will all walk away leaving you in deep doo doo  this whole thing about making money nothing else  no matter what they say

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A very interesting subject !

BASC actively promote home loading for Rifle ammunition in fact they do Courses for it , so you would think they would also support shotgun cartridge reloading?

It will be interesting to hear their thoughts on the Insurance situation.

Also Clay & Game Reloading advertise in BASC's in house magazine Shooting and Conservation.

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I’ve just had a reply from the insurance company they’re saying that Home Reloading Loading is fine as long as it’s within the  law, 

 As regards to putting steel shot through a non-proofed gun they said that would be one for the gun experts so it would appear you might  not be insured 

 Just to add this is only my insurance company your company could be different might be worth checking 

Edited by silver fox 1
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