lancer425 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Thank you I saw this earlier and phoned them and to be honest it easier to understand than talking to them on the phone they recommend something then when you order it they don’t have it anyway I’ll try again Monday Armourer reloading have the fibre cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Armourer reloading have the fibre cups. Thank you and appreciate the effort you put in negotiating the website 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Thanks for starting this thread. Even though all my guns are 2 3/4 chambered I was thinking of loading my own. It's nice to be able to do it even if it's not massively cheaper to do it I quite like the idea of it. Being quite close to a clay ground I'll have a ready supply of hulls to load up. I'm all for saving money and not spending needlessly where possible....short arms and deep pockets I suppose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rob85 said: Thanks for starting this thread. Even though all my guns are 2 3/4 chambered I was thinking of loading my own. It's nice to be able to do it even if it's not massively cheaper to do it I quite like the idea of it. Being quite close to a clay ground I'll have a ready supply of hulls to load up. I'm all for saving money and not spending needlessly where possible....short arms and deep pockets I suppose! Hopefully you’ll get some good advice from the other members I’m sure someone will tell you the best ones to use from the clay ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Rob85 said: even if it's not massively cheaper to do "........ I'm all for saving money and not spending needlessly where possible....short arms and deep pockets I suppose! Rob85, if your gun is 12ga good luck trying to save any money the fibre cup wads shown are £150 plus per 1000 then the cost of primers, powder, shot. It will most likely be cheaper to buy the cartridges be that steel or lead shot. old farrier is consider it as they don’t yet offer a 12ga load in steel shot in biodegradable wads in 2.5inch Edited March 7, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Rob85, if your gun is 12ga good luck trying to save any money the fibre cup wads shown are £150 plus per 1000 then the cost of primers, powder, shot. It will most likely be cheaper to buy the cartridges be that steel or lead shot. Do they do a steel fibre wad in 2..3/4? That you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Do they do a steel fibre wad in 2..3/4? That you recommend? The only steel fibre wads on the market available to home loaders so far is that sold by clay and game. Edited March 7, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: The only steel fibre wads on the market available to home loaders so far is that sold by clay and game. Thank you do you know of a factory loaded 2..3/4 steel fibre wad cartridge that is available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Cracking thread lads, very helpful/informative👍🏻. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Has anyone tried to make their own fibre shot cup? I remember seeing a video from TGS outdoors and it seemed to suggest it was basically made from paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rob85 said: Has anyone tried to make their own fibre shot cup? I remember seeing a video from TGS outdoors and it seemed to suggest it was basically made from paper. Don’t know please post if you have 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Don’t know please post if you have 👍 I loaded ITM in a big muzzle-loader, ITM was AFAIK bore unfriendly,well it apparently wore the equipment out making it i was told. I made wad sieves on a former which was a 25mm hydraulic pipe "made perfect size tubes for my ML four" chucked up in my lathe. I used a roll of plotter paper as the wad material and my feed roller was the frame off the old child gate off the stairs. i just g clamped it to the swarf apron and removed the 1/2 inch dowel with a brush shaft turned down to half inch at the ends and i juar slackened off the gate adjusters slid on the plotter paper slid them back and tightened the wood screws, tension was with a pair of bungie straps the cheap army ones off ebay. I turned the chuck by hand and applied flour and water paste v"my thinking was papermashe they made armour from it in asia AFAIK. " it made perfect solid paper tubes i used about 20 turns , it cures quick if its warm . I never use these with Steel. I think it should work, but i am of the opinion i might make any steel wads out of greaseproof paper and aluminium foil, do a one over one lamination on a rig made to take the long rolls of these materials. I am thinking Plumbing pipe vpipe cutter push fit couplings and a similar idea is easy doable, i just used the lathe because it was there. UPVS ande tie wraps are your friend i think a old cupboard door ar something of the sort with the tubes off that would perhaps work. Sure with a bit of thought , something can be made out of stuff you probably got wedged in the roof of the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Have a look at load data for the weight you want to shoot. Maxam SSB150 or blue dot could be lots cheaper than Allian Steel. In a 2 1/2" case your not going to get a heavy payload of steel and powder. I struggle to get what I want in a 31/2" case. I would start with a 23/4" load data for a load weight that will fit the 21/2" case and drop the powder a few grains to see how they perform over a chrono. Could be 24 or 28g of 4 shot. Clay&Game should be able to sort out a load for you. They done one years ago for 28bore. The right card wetted or dampened should be able to be formed into a tube wad. Think pie crust press but smaller. One more open to about 45 degrees then another to finish the molding. Edited March 8, 2020 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Somebody with a bit of engineering background /know how could make a few quid now if they could design and manufacture a jig to make own wads for the various calibres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: Somebody with a bit of engineering background /know how could make a few quid now if they could design and manufacture a jig to make own wads for the various calibres Who ever makes the paper cases for cartridges is already got the equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Who ever makes the paper cases for cartridges is already got the equipment On the ITM i knew it was soft and i mean SOFT, it deformed and it had less chance of any strike through /pin holing. Steel again with smaller shot should be ok ish, but i am not sure when you get bigger"Not realy a factor for game shooters" because the bigger sizes BBB and up can destroy tough plaswads, so i do not think its a good idea to use these with these wads. You need to pay attention to the gas sealing aspect too, The experienced wildfowlers here will recognise this next scenario very well. Older Multi metals ands all RSI sam 1s in 10ga and bigger load 12s, with certain loads " Heavy loads or High velocity" can blow of about half the gas seal section off the wad, not every time but a good %. Now if it will do that with an RSI wad it will virtually vaporise these card cups . Now i will attach the TGS card cup video here, and he recognises the wad disintegrating/ vaporising and mentions it. Have a look you will see what i mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rob85 said: Has anyone tried to make their own fibre shot cup? I remember seeing a video from TGS outdoors and it seemed to suggest it was basically made from paper. If it’s the same episode I watched, it was for a 3” chambered gun ( not that that should matter if it were cut down ) but it was very inconsistent in that sometimes it held up but other times it was shredded! Not what you want really. Lancer ( above ) beat me to it. 👍 Edited March 8, 2020 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Scully said: If it’s the same episode I watched, it was for a 3” chambered gun ( not that that should matter if it were cut down ) but it was very inconsistent in that sometimes it held up but other times it was shredded! Not what you want really. Lancer ( above ) beat me to it. 👍 That video is quite telling, i just linked it in the post above and just watched it again, and i think its a wad issue its not holding to gether reliably. I am not use if its the lack of an effective gas seal or not but i suspect it is a major contributor. the joker has a proper inverted card cup seal, like the old supper double x magnums. and yet gamebore in typical gamebore style just bang a nitro card on the powder and drop the cup on that shot charge it crimp it down thats it. Honestly why buy from such people every fibre wad cartridge over the last 15 years as been minimum effort for max revinue raising. Compare these fibre wads now to say an eley magnum or maximum of the 60s, you had a proper fibre wad column in them. now its slap em together these idiots will buy anything. Now if the joker can do it i am sure gamebore and others can. The wad breaking/ vaporising, i think seal/ and posibly the cup walls. I think if i were to start using these seriously i would have to line the cup with foil, my old mate did this to help stop pin holing with BBs , i think i will go one further and line them with drink can aluminim easy to cut with scisors and tougher than foil. A laminated card and aluminim foil wad would be an idea. But it will hang around longer unlike the fibre cups which will degrage in a month or so. Lots to sort out with these things, but the most impresive i have seen so far on whats in them, bearing in mind i have tested zero of these, is the joker its seal if a step in the right direction, slapping in a niitro card a la gamebore is not going to be consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Back in my reloading days we used ‘gas checks’ in particularly hot loads, but these were made from copper. I’m assuming it’s the cardboard wad in these particular cartridges which play this part, but isn’t consistent in its reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 i wouldn,t even conssider loading steel yet,after watching fieldsports tv on the subject cartridge makers are saying no way can they change over in 5 years,basc are claiming they can,i,ll stick with lead till i have to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Old farrier said: Who ever makes the paper cases for cartridges is already got the equipment I was thinking more for home loaders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: I was thinking more for home loaders If they can roll a paper case they can roll it paper wad/ cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 5 hours ago, hawkfanz said: i wouldn,t even conssider loading steel yet,after watching fieldsports tv on the subject cartridge makers are saying no way can they change over in 5 years,basc are claiming they can,i,ll stick with lead till i have to change. I think the cartridge manufacturers could, if they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, motty said: I think the cartridge manufacturers could, if they wanted to. I do too. If it means lost revenue, I would think the old saying ‘necessity is the mother of all invention ‘ applies even more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Until the government say no more lead shot, the manufacturers will carry on as they were. Who can blame them, all the Shooting orgs get together behind closed doors to decide this is what's happening. They don't even have the cartridge manufacturers on board. They don't have the members on board in most cases. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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