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Westward

Keyless start signal blocker

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My car has the dreaded keyless entry/start etc. which is a gift for the suitably equipped pro car thieves and whilst my car isn't likely to be high on their shopping list, it's still vulnerable to relay theft.

So has anyone here made their own signal blocker? I was thinking of metal tin with a screw top or similar.

Any DIY ideas welcomed.

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I bought 2 Faraday pouches off the bay for around £9 when I bought my keyless XC 60 last year. A metal tin may well reduce the signal, not sure. I felt happier buying something that was designed for the task. I have heard of people putting theirs in the fridge but who wants a remote fob thats fallen in yesterdays gravy that was saved for the dogs !

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£5 in Aldi I wouldn't risk it in  a metal tin, apparently a mico wave is a safe place.

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Posted (edited)

Key.jpg

Colleague of mine found out Microwaves are not safe.......not if your brother turns the microwave on

 

Edited by Dibble

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I have a Renault keyless, I can walk up to the car and press button on door handle and door lock opens Or I can press the 'lock' on the key and and I need to press unlock to then open the door.

Is that a safer option to prevent access to the signal by criminals? 

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27 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

Is that a safer option to prevent access to the signal by criminals? 

No. The car thief is invariably using a device to amplify and store the signal permanently emitted by the remote. A Faraday pouch is designed to block the signal from the remote and prevent it being accessed by someone outside your house. Your Renault appears to operate in a similar if not identical way to my Volvo.

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15 hours ago, Good shot? said:

I have a Renault keyless, I can walk up to the car and press button on door handle and door lock opens Or I can press the 'lock' on the key and and I need to press unlock to then open the door.

Is that a safer option to prevent access to the signal by criminals? 

No. In fact it's exactly how mine works and just what the crims want. They use a signal relay box which detects the signal from the key fob in the house and boosts it so that the car thinks the key is in range. All the crim has to do then is press the button, open the door, start the engine and drive away. AFAIK the actual coding for the fob is held within the ECU, so again, with a suitable gizmo, the crims can instantly replicate the key fob. Bingo!

After that it's straight into a shipping container and off to somewhere like Romania.

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any metal tin will do -- you can check it works by placing the key in the tin and having on your person when you try to open the car.

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1 hour ago, DrBob1 said:

any metal tin will do -- you can check it works by placing the key in the tin and having on your person when you try to open the car.

I just tried that using an aluminium tin with a screw top. Holding the tin very close to the car I could still open the doors but not from a few inches away - and that's with a 14 month old battery. Clearly doesn't fully shield the signal so I suppose I'll have to pay up for a proper blocker.

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17 minutes ago, Westward said:

I just tried that using an aluminium tin with a screw top. Holding the tin very close to the car I could still open the doors but not from a few inches away - and that's with a 14 month old battery. Clearly doesn't fully shield the signal so I suppose I'll have to pay up for a proper blocker.

 

20 hours ago, JJsDad said:

I felt happier buying something that was designed for the task.

Likely be the same result with a 'proper' blocker; there is no way to cheat physics.  Radio waves follow the inverse square law.

If you're really paranoid, keep your keys in your gun safe.  Likely a much better Faraday cage than a cloth pouch lined with bacofoil, and due it being physically further from the vehicle at all times, securer.

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4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

If you're really paranoid, keep your keys in your gun safe.  Likely a much better Faraday cage than a cloth pouch lined with bacofoil, and due it being physically further from the vehicle at all times, securer.

Just realised I've got a steel, lockable Avery key safe thingy which I could fit to the wall. Much easier than the gun safe. No idea what most of the keys in there actually fit anyway so a clear out wouldn't do any harm.

p.s. BTW the keys to the gun safe are not kept in the key safe. :good:

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Can someone clarify for someone who is hard of thinking.

What is the difference in the (at least) two signals.

1/ The signal from the key card  when pressing 'lock' or 'unlock' the car.

and

2/ The continuous signal from the key card . 

Are they the same frequency but different strength?

My point is, the act of cloning the signal in '1' cannot be done if the key card is in the house and not being used but the signal in '2' can be cloned at any time if in the vicinity.

If I walk away from the car with my key card the doors lock, like wise if i approach the car with my key card  I can enter the car by pressing the button on the door lock.

If I lock the car with 'lock' button on key card I cannot subsequently approach the car with key card to hand and enter the car.

I must press 'unlock button on key card to enter car.

Sorry to go on but i seem to be missing something.

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17 hours ago, DrBob1 said:

any metal tin will do -- you can check it works by placing the key in the tin and having on your person when you try to open the car.

Metal key cabinet is perfect for this. Screwed to the wall it stops relay theft and provides a convenient way to know where I left the keys. It is obviously never used by MrsSxS who still manages to lose her keys on at least a daily basis...

Edit: obviously not so good if you want an out and about solution!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Good shot? said:

Can someone clarify for someone who is hard of thinking.

What is the difference in the (at least) two signals.

1/ The signal from the key card  when pressing 'lock' or 'unlock' the car.

and

2/ The continuous signal from the key card . 

Are they the same frequency but different strength?

My point is, the act of cloning the signal in '1' cannot be done if the key card is in the house and not being used but the signal in '2' can be cloned at any time if in the vicinity.

If I walk away from the car with my key card the doors lock, like wise if i approach the car with my key card  I can enter the car by pressing the button on the door lock.

If I lock the car with 'lock' button on key card I cannot subsequently approach the car with key card to hand and enter the car.

I must press 'unlock button on key card to enter car.

Sorry to go on but i seem to be missing something.

Some car makers are looking into ways to automatically turn off the permanent signal when not needed but right now, the key constantly emits a weak radio signal and the car is always listening for it. When the key is within a metre or so of the car, they  link up like a sort of Bluetooth pairing and the door buttons become active for locking/unlocking. The keyless system and the conventional remote lock/unlock using the fob buttons control the same set of door locks but operate independently of each other. As you mentioned, the fob buttons only transmit a radio sequence when the buttons are pressed.

Auto locking is turned off on my car, tried it for a while, didn't like it. Sometimes I lock with the fob button, sometimes the door button but  I can still unlock by either method whichever way it was locked.

Edited by Westward

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Next years Toyota Rav4 will have a key with a movement sensor that goes to sleep if the key is stationary, they aren't offering it to existing owners.

My key lives in an old tin box.

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25 minutes ago, Dibble said:

Next years Toyota Rav4 will have a key with a movement sensor that goes to sleep if the key is stationary, they aren't offering it to existing owners.

My key lives in an old tin box.

They'll all have to do this or something similar. Can't be that hard in today's world to make the thing secure.

I don't drive a high value prestige vehicle so I'm not especially worried, but  it's better to be safe than sorry.

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Ford have been using keys that 'go to sleep' for the last year.
Only backwards compatible though to some 2018 models. 

 

This is how quick a relay attack is, and these guys are a pair of muppets !
Note how they hold the relay to get access, but he then moves away before scrote 2 has hit the start button, so has to go back.
Then have a laugh about scrote 3 blocking the access off the drive.
Not the smartest gang around, but still shows how quick it can be done.

A lot of modern cars have the option to turn off keyless entry in the cluster menu's, which is a smart thing to do.
Then protect the keys in the house with the previously mentioned comments.
 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I have a thing called ghost fitted to my vehicle and even if I gave you the keys you wouldn’t be able to start the car even with one of them fancy boxes. It wasn’t very expensive to be fitted and fitted with a tracker for peace of mind were I can remotely turn the vehicle off from my phone. The only problem with this is if they are 100% they want it they will come in your house and do you or your family some damage until you show them how to start it. 

Edited by crossy 666

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Faraday pouches are cheap and very effective.  I'm a fan of sticking the car in the garage (have an Audi RS with keyless so a prime target), the keys are still stored in a Faraday pouch even then.  

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That video shows how brazen they are. About 5 years ago my wife was up feeding the first baby one night and spotted the lights go on in my Range Rover, she came in and woke me up. Next second our big dogs start baying. I didn’t need any more warning, ran out naked and caught up with the last guy after he’d fallen he lept over the 2m wall. Held him against the wall. Poor bloke didn’t know if he was going to be shanked or raped 🤣 
 

Anyway he was only about 20, I let him go with a ‘polite’ word of warning. He was terrified but it was brilliant. I never called the police as wasn’t worth it. They were very unfortunate that my wife was awake, dogs alert and that I was a 30 year old athlete. I was very fortunate that it didn’t turn sour, could have lost my tickets or life. 

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36 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Faraday pouches are cheap and very effective.  I'm a fan of sticking the car in the garage (have an Audi RS with keyless so a prime target), the keys are still stored in a Faraday pouch even then.  

Not many people use a garage for what it was designed for, I haven't for about 20 years, but it must be a help just by "hiding" their target so they go on past and pick on someone else.

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I put my Defender in the garage every time I come home.  The caravan club boys would have it in three days if I didn’t. We garage the Audi as well.

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