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YES OR NO Phasing out Lead


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40 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

well i didn't get much from BASC(in fact nothing),yes i bash BASC because i think they deserve it others may think different and they are welcome to try to defend them,not a problem:good:

Are you still a member?

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6 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

+1. Those that think voluntarily surrendering lead shot and throwing everybody else under the bus for the sake of the "big bag" boys trying to justify excessive putting down birds as "they sell it the pheasants to Waitrose" are following a false star.

Wild Justice oppose grouse shooting per se...regardless of if the grouse are shot with lead or non-toxic. Wild Justice oppose releasing reared game per se...regardless of if it is shot with lead or non-toxic.

Voluntary banning lead shot won't change it. Indeed even if a legal ban on lead shot were enacted by Parliament on lead it wouldn't change those two aims of Wild Justice. A voluntary ban on lead shot offers no benefit to most of us. It is simply the delusional equivalent paying of "Danegeld" with base metal instead of noble metal.

As you’ve posted this in two different threads, I’ll reply with the same response I did as in the other thread.

WJ oppose ALL killing for sport,  and those that think the cessation of driven shooting will save their particular type of killing for sport are naive in the extreme. 
 

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5 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Could you be kind enough to tell me the difference between a big bag boy on a day shooting 500 between 8 

and you going out shooting 100 pigeon a day 

wj don’t like shooting if you don’t support the whole of shooting they will start at the top or bottom and nibble away at it 

ia a voluntary ban on plastic wads and lead shot over 5 years transition period such a bad thing for the majority? 
or would you prefer a instant ban on it with no time to develop new loads 

Why would there be an instant ban? Until their statement last month all the org's were in agreement with 'no evidence, no ban' or whatever the slogan was. 

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3 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Nobody as far as I know breeds and releases pigeons. It is a wild bird. And it is a pest species. Putting down any amount of pheasants isn't a problem if the acreage of land is what would be said to be sufficient to naturally....with an amount of feeding...sustain a reasonable density of birds. The reality is that the for the "big bag" boys pheasants have become little more than feather bearing clay pigeons and the land is excessively stocked with these things beyond any reasonable density that then gives credence to the likes of Packham et al claiming that an artificial monoculture (of pheasant) has been imposed on the immediate environment. 

Of course they’re feathered clay pigeons; it’s shooting for sport, for crying out loud! It’s business, BIG business! It has nothing to do with a brace or two for the table; they’re paying lots and lots of money to shoot as many challenging birds as possible, for entertainment! Why do you think there are shoots supplying ‘extreme bird days’ or ‘big bag days’? Because there are people willing to pay to do so; they’re just catering to a demand. It is big business. 
Bear in mind though, before anyone rushes in to claim the higher moral ground, that they’re doing it for exactly the same reason you or I shoot...because they enjoy it. Like I’ve said many a time on here; if you’re not enjoying yourself then STOP DOING IT! No one is forcing you. 

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24 minutes ago, BrowningB7 said:

Why would there be an instant ban? Until their statement last month all the org's were in agreement with 'no evidence, no ban' or whatever the slogan was. 

Sorry should have said the government could put a instant ban on it 

it’s far easier to ban than work for a mutual agreement 

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4 hours ago, clangerman said:

you can put as few or as many down as you like the difference is game shooting has no justification it’s seen as purely fun from outside where’s pigeon shooting is justified on both damage and as a free food source 

You make ridiculous arguments. 

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

take the stick from the antis that would be a first as for legislation we can make our own rules now until we come up with a way to justify game shooting to the public the end is just a waiting game  

What are you talking about?

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8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Or maybe there bright idea bought 5 years transition time 

 

10 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Or maybe there bright idea bought 5 years transition time 

if there is not a steel/plastic free/comparable performance to lead cartridge by the end of the 5 years will BASC ask for an extension??

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45 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Sorry should have said the government could put a instant ban on it 

it’s far easier to ban than work for a mutual agreement 

Yes... Although, like after the general licence being pulled, I would hope enough of us (and our representatives) would kick up enough fuss to why lead should remain until all the evidence is gathered and points of view are considered. 

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10 minutes ago, clangerman said:

simply a statement of fact just calling it as it is game shooters enjoy shooting birds in the same way i do but i have some justification for doing so where is their justification?

Facts? You are dealing in mere opinion!

You sound like a weird anti. 

4 minutes ago, BrowningB7 said:

Yes... Although, like after the general licence being pulled, I would hope enough of us (and our representatives) would kick up enough fuss to why lead should remain until all the evidence is gathered and points of view are considered. 

You are forgetting the bigger picture. 

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11 minutes ago, clangerman said:

simply a statement of fact just calling it as it is game shooters enjoy shooting birds in the same way ido buti have some justification for doing so where is their justification?

Unless they are your crops you're protecting you have no justification whatsoever. 

 

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1 minute ago, CharlieT said:

Unless they are your crops you're protecting you have no justification whatsoever. 

 

i have justification because it’s a FACT if i don’t shoot them the farmer will call in someone else 

4 minutes ago, motty said:

Facts? You are dealing in mere opinion!

You sound like a weird anti. 

You are forgetting the bigger picture. 

ANTI? no need to get personal lol 

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1 hour ago, clangerman said:

basc eley thread says it ALL mate anyone innocent would stump up PROOF not just keep repeating statement! statement! like a parrot it’s ridiculous 

You're the parrot! What evidence are you looking for?

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I would council caution about attacking game shooting or attacking steel shot. Remember this is a public forum and those opposed to shooting can see all you post. Just imagine for a moment if what you have posted appears on a web page of an organisation opposed to shooting, with a caption along the lines of 'even shooters are opposed to game shooting' what will you do then?

Andrew, your constant attacks on BASC are pointless and not helping anyone, I know you will keep doing it because you can't see the bigger picture, but just think about it.

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28 minutes ago, clangerman said:

simply a statement of fact just calling it as it is game shooters enjoy shooting birds in the same way i do but i have some justification for doing so where is their justification?

They don’t need justification anymore than you do. Why would they? 

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