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Conor O'Gorman

Fieldsports related advice during the coronavirus outbreak

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3 hours ago, marsh man said:

No , I am not suggesting a gas gun is all that is necessary , but a gas gun is working from when it can be legally switched on to a time when it is switched off , which is normally a lot longer than someone shooting pigeons , also I don't think a gas gun and some plastic flags acting as bird scarers would have warranted a member of the public calling the police if he felt feeling endangered by somebody with a shotgun on a footpath , just my thoughts .

Now don’t you go bringing any common sense to this debate marsh man. :lol:

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37 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Now don’t you go bringing any common sense to this debate marsh man.

Too late ! Common sense is there ! I agree with you marsh man why anyone would set up on a footpath is beyond me yes it may normally be quiet but in these times you know there will be people out all over the place , and for this short period we are supposed to be in lockdown then again I agree as a stop gap gas guns , flags , kites etc would cover till we can get back out again 

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1 minute ago, spurs 14 said:

Too late ! Common sense is there ! I agree with you marsh man why anyone would set up on a footpath is beyond me yes it may normally be quiet but in these times you know there will be people out all over the place , and for this short period we are supposed to be in lockdown then again I agree as a stop gap gas guns , flags , kites etc would cover till we can get back out again 

So, takeing into consideration everything I have already said - that I was asked to shoot by the farmer for pest control, that I was shooting from the safest position, that crops had already been lost, that I was acting in accordance with the general licence for woodpigeons, that the police found no problem with my actions,  that I was acting in accordance with the BASC guidelines and that i was also acting in accordance with the Government guidance on essential work that cannot be done from home - you are, regardless - still not satisfied with my actions.

Alas.

You may have your own interpretations of what the current guidelines are from the Government and our respective sporting bodies. Fine - your thoughts are your own, and I will leave you to them. 

But, nevertheless, I have not read a word here that in all seriousness makes me reconsider the opinion I have already stated.

 

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56 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Now don’t you go bringing any common sense to this debate marsh man.

Us Norfolk boys don't normally have a lot of common sense , only non,sense and a bit of old squit :lol:

 

17 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Too late ! Common sense is there ! I agree with you marsh man why anyone would set up on a footpath is beyond me yes it may normally be quiet but in these times you know there will be people out all over the place , and for this short period we are supposed to be in lockdown then again I agree as a stop gap gas guns , flags , kites etc would cover till we can get back out again 

More ways to skin a cat springs to mind , Well not a live cat may I add :good:

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16 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

So, takeing into consideration everything I have already said - that I was asked to shoot by the farmer for pest control, that I was shooting from the safest position, that crops had already been lost, that I was acting in accordance with the general licence for woodpigeons, that the police found no problem with my actions,  that I was acting in accordance with the BASC guidelines and that i was also acting in accordance with the Government guidance on essential work that cannot be done from home - you are, regardless - still not satisfied with my actions.

Alas.

You may have your own interpretations of what the current guidelines are from the Government and our respective sporting bodies. Fine - your thoughts are your own, and I will leave you to them. 

But, nevertheless, I have not read a word here that in all seriousness makes me reconsider the opinion I have already stated.

 

don’t take it personal mate the police monitor ALL forums so all we are doing is kissing goodbye to any chance of further police support for us utter madness 

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20 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

So, takeing into consideration everything I have already said - that I was asked to shoot by the farmer for pest control, that I was shooting from the safest position, that crops had already been lost, that I was acting in accordance with the general licence for woodpigeons, that the police found no problem with my actions,  that I was acting in accordance with the BASC guidelines and that i was also acting in accordance with the Government guidance on essential work that cannot be done from home - you are, regardless - still not satisfied with my actions.

Alas.

You may have your own interpretations of what the current guidelines are from the Government and our respective sporting bodies. Fine - your thoughts are your own, and I will leave you to them. 

But, nevertheless, I have not read a word here that in all seriousness makes me reconsider the opinion I have already stated.

 

So all of us not shooting/ Stalking have got it wrong.

In my case i can't shoot the problem Deer from home so off i go in vehicle when stopped by police i just mention PeterHenry on PW says it's ok .

 

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5 minutes ago, 6.5x55SE said:

So all of us not shooting/ Stalking have got it wrong.

In my case i can't shoot the problem Deer from home so off i go in vehicle when stopped by police i just mention PeterHenry on PW says it's ok .

 

No, not quite.

My understanding is that as per the current guidance from BASC, which takes into account the current Government position - shooting pigeons for the protection of crops is allowed should it fall under the guise of essential work.

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1 hour ago, bluesj said:

A lot of anti shooters on here!

How'd you work that out.

In my opinion different interpretations and miss understanding what is going to loose our tickets or not

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1 hour ago, PeterHenry said:

No, not quite.

My understanding is that as per the current guidance from BASC, which takes into account the current Government position - shooting pigeons for the protection of crops is allowed should it fall under the guise of essential work.

Not looking for a bun fight  but that's where we differ " shooting under the guise of essential work " personally i read that as pest controller Deer stalker for who it's there job. If I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit it hold me hads up. 

A Farmer i shoot Deer/Pigeons for can move these problems on himself ( more work and time i admit ) get me to do it surely I'm classed as Recreational Shooting/Stalker which i then are not following advice recommendations from the Government BASC other organisations

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3 minutes ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Not looking for a bun fight  but that's where we differ " shooting under the guise of essential work " personally i read that as pest controller Deer stalker for who it's there job. If I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit it hold me hads up. 

A Farmer i shoot Deer/Pigeons for can move these problems on himself ( more work and time i admit ) get me to do it surely I'm classed as Recreational Shooting/Stalker which i then are not following advice recommendations from the Government BASC other organisations

I take what you are saying on board. 

My understanding - as per the common definition of work - which is a term that has not to my knowledge been otherwise legislatively defined in relation to the current situation, or otherwise to the one understood in common parlance - is that it is an undertaking mental or physical. There is no need for it to be recompenced in any way.

That's my genuine understanding -  no twisting of words. 

 

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What part of what Boris said do some not understand

Stay at home ..protect the NHS ..save lives

And Essential travel only

And only go out for a minimum time

The death rate is rising it will get worse before it gets better over 1000 up to now, could go over 20000 plus if persons don't stay at homr

It only takes a person  to do this non- essential work or bend the rules more by saying swinging a gun around in a field is once a day fitness,

Imagine protecting those crops by driving 10 miles to you permission..you then Need to fill  the car. You catch the virus from a pump or the garage counter.

Take it home pass it to there kids ..who passed it on to an elderly reletive they should not be visiting. The reletive then takes up a critical care bed. That person dies but just before they did . They panicked pulling off a nurses PPE who then had to be off work..the person was a specialist ITU ventilator nurse...she is missed on the unit as all the other staff have to cover her shifts.

The person after not attending his loved ones funeral..to many wanted to go restricted attendance..then thinks what was the root cause... It dawns on him

...and we wonder how this deadly virus spreads..

I think I will do what Boris says.

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The same small percentage that will always justify their poorly thought out actions without consideration of others!

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One good thing about this is that we seem to have finally been able to put the footpath/ 50ft/3 conditions to bed.

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22 minutes ago, psycho said:

What part of what Boris said do some not understand

Stay at home ..protect the NHS ..save lives

And Essential travel only

And only go out for a minimum time

The death rate is rising it will get worse before it gets better over 1000 up to now, could go over 20000 plus if persons don't stay at homr

It only takes a person  to do this non- essential work or bend the rules more by saying swinging a gun around in a field is once a day fitness,

Imagine protecting those crops by driving 10 miles to you permission..you then Need to fill  the car. You catch the virus from a pump or the garage counter.

Take it home pass it to there kids ..who passed it on to an elderly reletive they should not be visiting. The reletive then takes up a critical care bed. That person dies but just before they did . They panicked pulling off a nurses PPE who then had to be off work..the person was a specialist ITU ventilator nurse...she is missed on the unit as all the other staff have to cover her shifts.

The person after not attending his loved ones funeral..to many wanted to go restricted attendance..then thinks what was the root cause... It dawns on him

...and we wonder how this deadly virus spreads..

I think I will do what Boris says.

Excellent post , just about sums it all up , STAY AT HOME , you are not only protecting yourself , you are also protecting everyone else .

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, psycho said:

What part of what Boris said do some not understand

Stay at home ..protect the NHS ..save lives

And Essential travel only

And only go out for a minimum time

The death rate is rising it will get worse before it gets better over 1000 up to now, could go over 20000 plus if persons don't stay at homr

It only takes a person  to do this non- essential work or bend the rules more by saying swinging a gun around in a field is once a day fitness,

Imagine protecting those crops by driving 10 miles to you permission..you then Need to fill  the car. You catch the virus from a pump or the garage counter.

Take it home pass it to there kids ..who passed it on to an elderly reletive they should not be visiting. The reletive then takes up a critical care bed. That person dies but just before they did . They panicked pulling off a nurses PPE who then had to be off work..the person was a specialist ITU ventilator nurse...she is missed on the unit as all the other staff have to cover her shifts.

The person after not attending his loved ones funeral..to many wanted to go restricted attendance..then thinks what was the root cause... It dawns on him

...and we wonder how this deadly virus spreads..

I think I will do what Boris says.

Farmers are classed as Key / essential workers on account of being involved in the production of food.

By the same virtue - if you are acting at the request of a farmer in relation to an activity that involves the process around the production of food, then you are acting in the capacity of a Key / essential worker.

Its is plainly obvious that this is the case.

I am not talking about walking up hedgerows - having a stroll with a gun and seeing if you can get a pigeon or rabbit for the pot. I'm talking about active crop protection which is directly concerned with keeping birds off a feild.

It is incredible to me that some members of this forum - after the last year and the problems we have had and still do have on account of various legal challenges, are now effectively arguing that crop protection is none essential.

Edited by PeterHenry

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It appears that there is no national approach by the police.

By this topic, Cheshire seem to allow crop protection. The Durham police website says "shooting vermin alone for the purpose of protecting crops and livestock will be permitted". Yet, I asked Avon and Somerset for guidance on essential crop protection, solo,  (my permission has started drilling) and I was told "I cannot give you authority to leave your home for this reason". I've no gripe with A&S firearms dept who have a good reputation. They will no doubt be complying with the requirements of those further up the greasy pole. But it would be helpful and give clarity if there was a national approach. Particularly as those getting it wrong (according to how their police force  see it) run the risk of losing their licence.

I understand that the BASC are seeking guidance, on a national level, how the police will view such activities and what they intend to do. As soon as they know they will be updating members.

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27 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

It is incredible to me that some members of this forum - after the last year and the problems we have had and still do have on account of various legal challenges, are now effectively arguing that crop protection is none essential.

:good:

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6 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

Farmers are classed as Key / essential workers on account of being involved in the production of food.

I am not talking about walking up hedgerows - having a stroll with a gun and seeing if you can get a pigeon or rabbit for the pot. 

arguing that crop protection is none essential.

Agree with para 1 the farmer is a key worker, as a person who has a permission on the farmers land to walk around and do a bit of vermin control I would say I am am not. 

Agree with para 2 --+this is what needs stopping..if it's not necessary do not leave the house, if I stay away from farm for 3 months will it really affect the farmers crop..not really

As BASC have said

“It is important that those involved in work that keeps our countryside functioning through this challenging time are still able to undertake essential work such as ensuring food production. In many instances, this cannot take place without associated pest control and wildlife management. But this must only be undertaken where absolutely necessary and in line with the latest government advice.

Para 3..... some are using this as an excuse to carry out para 2 and are therefore not carrying out the government s advice...

By driving 10 miles to have a nice stroll out for an afternoons  shoot is not playing the game in this current climate. By having a nice day out shooting in the country side when you should be working at home is not fair to the employer who is paying you is not playing the game.

This is a national emergency it's not a game...

my day today consists of staying at home may even clean my guns and line the safe with a yoga mat...one of those will do jobs..that I now have time to do...

then at 15:50 I will here the statistics for the day on BBC1 and hope there is a little bit of improvement knowing that I like the vast majority rather than the selfish few have done my bit

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, psycho said:

Agree with para 1 the farmer is a key worker, as a person who has a permission on the farmers land to walk around and do a bit of vermin control I would say I am am not. 

Agree with para 2 --+this is what needs stopping..if it's not necessary do not leave the house, if I stay away from farm for 3 months will it really affect the farmers crop..not really

As BASC have said

“It is important that those involved in work that keeps our countryside functioning through this challenging time are still able to undertake essential work such as ensuring food production. In many instances, this cannot take place without associated pest control and wildlife management. But this must only be undertaken where absolutely necessary and in line with the latest government advice.

Para 3..... some are using this as an excuse to carry out para 2 and are therefore not carrying out the government s advice...

By driving 10 miles to have a nice stroll out for an afternoons  shoot is not playing the game in this current climate. By having a nice day out shooting in the country side when you should be working at home is not fair to the employer who is paying you is not playing the game.

This is a national emergency it's not a game...

my day today consists of staying at home may even clean my guns and line the safe with a yoga mat...one of those will do jobs..that I now have time to do...

then at 15:50 I will here the statistics for the day on BBC1 and hope there is a little bit of improvement knowing that I like the vast majority rather than the selfish few have done my bit

 

 

In that case - I think we are largely in agreement.

I entirely agree with you that the Government guidelines should be obeyed in spirit as well as to the letter.

However, I would say that when performing pest control, in good faith, and at the request of a farmer - you meet the definition of a key worker.

The above, by deffinition is going to depend upon the intent of the individual involved - which - again by definition - can only be a matter for them and their conscience.

But the key thing is that we all obey the Goverment guidelines both in spirit and to the letter.

Edited by PeterHenry
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1 hour ago, PeterHenry said:

In that case - I think we are largely in agreement.

I entirely agree with you that the Government guidelines should be obeyed in spirit as well as to the letter.

However, I would say that when performing pest control, in good faith, and at the request of a farmer - you meet the definition of a key worker.

The above, by deffinition is going to depend upon the intent of the individual involved - which - again by definition - can only be a matter for them and their conscience.

But the key thing is that we all obey the Goverment guidelines both in spirit and to the letter.

I doubt you were doing any crop protection on that field of sown oats but you may have been protecting future crops (standing corn) from the local pigeon population.

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4 hours ago, marsh man said:

Excellent post , just about sums it all up , STAY AT HOME , you are not only protecting yourself , you are also protecting everyone else .

^^^^^^This . :good:

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Doesn’t matter what is said , what information is given , how selfish they act !  some one will always be able to convince themselves they are in the right and providing a service !!! We all agree crop protection is important but for this period there are alternatives , what is so difficult to understand ? If we all do our bit , yes everyone is going stir crazy not being able to get out but 99 % of us are doing the right thing ! No you won’t catch the virus sat in a hide on your own it’s the other parts of the journey which they ignore , as the adverts are saying “ protect the nhs “ were not going to cure it in three weeks just slow it so the nhs can cope !! 

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4 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Doesn’t matter what is said , what information is given , how selfish they act !  some one will always be able to convince themselves they are in the right and providing a service !!! We all agree crop protection is important but for this period there are alternatives , what is so difficult to understand ? If we all do our bit , yes everyone is going stir crazy not being able to get out but 99 % of us are doing the right thing ! No you won’t catch the virus sat in a hide on your own it’s the other parts of the journey which they ignore , as the adverts are saying “ protect the nhs “ were not going to cure it in three weeks just slow it so the nhs can cope !! 

i wouldn’t worry after reading all the negative comments any further calls for help from the police will no doubt be meet with taser and arrest there’s no helping some people 

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And what about all those within walking distance of where they propose to self isolate with a gun?

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