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fatchap

A sparks or welders question.

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I'm going to build.....I say build its a table with a metal top, welding table. Not in anyway an expert in electrics but I have heard that you can burn out your wiring by using a welders bench. I have heard that the metal top creates too much resistance and trips out or burns out your electrics. The one I am inclined to believe is if the earth lead leading to the bench is too long due to space or positioning of the table that will burn out your electrics. In all I honesty I think it will probably just trip your RCD but people do love to exaggerate.

Anyone on here have experience is it easier just to earth the part your welding? I have a table and a nice sheet of 4mm steel plate ready to go. But would like to know if I do indeed need to ramp up my fuses.

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never heard of that ............never happened to me ever.............just make sure you have a good earth system and is clean or clamped onto.........and keep the table clean free of spatter

 

when you make the table dont do full runs.....heavy tacks are fine..

Edited by ditchman

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I have a small steel topped welding bench with a vice attached and have done a lot of wleding on there with no problem. There again my welder is fed through a big blue plug which might make the difference.

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58 minutes ago, fatchap said:

heard that the metal top creates too much resistance and trips out or burns out your electrics.

Have you been watching American YouTube videos or reading US forums by any chance?  They have no end of issues over there due to the daft idea they have of using 120v (or occasionally some form of 240v derived from 2 phases), and will burn out what they call GFCIs (RCDs to you and me) for a hobby as they wire them directly to sockets, and rarely do they have a proper reference to earth.

But for us on this side of the pond, I suppose, theoretically, you could have some issues if you were welding on a whacking great metal structure bonded to your buildings' earth, and had a poor return connection to the welder.  This would be more likely in an industrial setting, where you have to be careful with such things as 'instrument earths' and 'dirty earths'.

But if you're just on a metal table in your garage, I doubt it.  Am perfectly fine on mine too.  I will occasionally use the return clamp directly on the object to be welded, but mostly it's just resting on the bench.

You need to ensure your welder has a good return connection - notice I'm not saying earth, as depending on which welding process you're using, it can be Electrode Positive, Electrode Negative, or AC.  Whatever, you'll soon know if you don't have one.

All that said, if you can, run a welder off a dedicated 16 A blue caravan socket - sometimes called 'Cee Form' or 'Commando' sockets - the better.  A lot of the smaller welders will pop the fuse in a 13a plug if you turn them up to 11 for doing the thick stuff.  Do not even think of popping an m5 bolt in its place.  Things get melty quickly.

 

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Thanks for the info chaps, Been doing a fair bit of welding lately for my new venture Log Baskets, I think a welding bench will make things a whole lot easier as I have been having quite a few problems making the first one. Managed to weld the clamping magnet to the work today but I really don't want to talk about that.:whistling:

Going from Arc welding to mig is also not as straightforward as I thought. Achieving that all important "pool" is quite frustrating.

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2 hours ago, ditchman said:

never heard of that ............never happened to me ever.............just make sure you have a good earth system and is clean or clamped onto.........and keep the table clean free of spatter

 

when you make the table dont do full runs.....heavy tacks are fine..

hello, Simon is correct, get some anti spatter spray, keep top clean and clamp work to bench

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2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

A lot of the smaller welders will pop the fuse in a 13a plug if you turn them up to 11 for doing the thick stuff.  Do not even think of popping an m5 bolt in its place.  Things get melty quickly.

 No.2 Pozi bit is a good fit....better than a P2

also a,Rothmans fuseIMG_0815.JPG.cefac244aec28f45c8c54a368e207f0b.JPG

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10 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

forgot to ask is it a stick welder or mig ? make and model ?

hello, just another thought as you not mention the above, most DIY welders come with a very tinny earth clamp, i have changed to one from a welding store

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11 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

forgot to ask is it a stick welder or mig ? make and model ?

Its a Clarke 145 mig welder no gas.

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41 minutes ago, fatchap said:

Its a Clarke 145 mig welder no gas.

hello, ok if your going to do a lot of welding i would suggest to get a better earth clamp and a teflon type welding wire liner to save the metal one from clogging up, should be a U tube  video showing how, a chap i know bought the Aldi no gas mig and doing same, let us know how you get on,

Edited by oldypigeonpopper

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12 hours ago, Diver One said:

 No.2 Pozi bit is a good fit....better than a P2

also a,Rothmans fuseIMG_0815.JPG.cefac244aec28f45c8c54a368e207f0b.JPG

Off kilter a bit but that photo reminded me of stuffing fag packet foil in a car fuse on my Mini way back when......

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I was going to bolt the earth lead directly to the metal top doing away with the clamp. Or is that not such a good idea?

Edited by fatchap

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31 minutes ago, fatchap said:

I was going to bolt the earth lead directly to the metal top doing away with the clamp. Or is that not such a good idea?

It removes your flexibility.  For instance, surely at some point you'll be welding on the log basket with it on its feet.  I.e. only small four points of contact.

Get yourself one of these

Silverline 427714 Magnetic Earth Block, 16 kg (35 lb)

 

1 hour ago, fatchap said:

Its a Clarke 145 mig welder no gas.

Are you getting acceptable results with gasless?  I mean, proper, good welds that don't look like a pigeon had diarrhoea all over your project?  It might not be your earth clamp is what I'm saying.

I know some people like them, but those Machine Mart Clarke specials are very finicky to set up, and you'll struggle to get repeatable results with them.  I had one, briefly, paid £40 for it.  Ran like absolute garbage.  Flogged for same money as spares or repair, bought an inverter MIG from GYS, my results improved overnight, and it can do stick and DC TIG too if I want.

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36 minutes ago, fatchap said:

I was going to bolt the earth lead directly to the metal top doing away with the clamp. Or is that not such a good idea?

hello, you do not need to do that, just buy a better earth clamp, and get a good fix on you steel bench, if it is only a steel sheet top, weld a bolt on somewhere that will not get in your way and clamp to that,

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10 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It removes your flexibility.  For instance, surely at some point you'll be welding on the log basket with it on its feet.  I.e. only small four points of contact.

Get yourself one of these

Silverline 427714 Magnetic Earth Block, 16 kg (35 lb)

 

Are you getting acceptable results with gasless?  I mean, proper, good welds that don't look like a pigeon had diarrhoea all over your project?  It might not be your earth clamp is what I'm saying.

I know some people like them, but those Machine Mart Clarke specials are very finicky to set up, and you'll struggle to get repeatable results with them.  I had one, briefly, paid £40 for it.  Ran like absolute garbage.  Flogged for same money as spares or repair, bought an inverter MIG from GYS, my results improved overnight, and it can do stick and DC TIG too if I want.

hello, while i agree these Clarke and other makes of gass less mig welding sets are not the best, if they are set up in the correct way they can do a reasonable weld

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Got to admit I got a lot better results with my old arc welder. Paid about 40 quid for it from somewhere or other can't remember, But when I'm swearing and throwing things around the workshop when a weld with the mig looks ok and the tiniest tap with the tiniest hammer breaks the weld, I do wish I'd kept hold of that arc welder.

I'm in no way or claim to be a good welder, not even competent, so I'd like to know if the good welders on here chuck biblical tantrums when a weld fails or you set fire to yourself like I have done on a few occasions. Welding for some reason makes me go from calm to Victor Meldrew in seconds. But when everything goes to plan I really enjoy welding shame it dont go to plan as often as I'd like/

 

Edited by fatchap

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3 minutes ago, fatchap said:

Got to admit I got a lot better results with my old arc welder. Paid about 40 quid for it from somewhere or other can't remember, But when I'm swearing and throwing things around the workshop when a weld with the mig looks ok and the tiniest tap with the tiniest hammer breaks the weld, I do wish I'd kept hold of that arc welder.

hello, that is all i use at the farm now an arc welder,  not much i cannot weld with it except of course Ally, but most jobs are steel based, your gassless mig, as i mention can produce a reasonable weld, a teflon liner, do not tighten the roller feed to much, get the wire speed and running amps correct, and keep tips clean then anti spatter spray, it just a matter of practice to get it all right,     

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11 minutes ago, fatchap said:

Got to admit I got a lot better results with my old arc welder. Paid about 40 quid for it from somewhere or other can't remember, But when I'm swearing and throwing things around the workshop when a weld with the mig looks ok and the tiniest tap with the tiniest hammer breaks the weld, I do wish I'd kept hold of that arc welder.

I'm in no way or claim to be a good welder, not even competent, so I'd like to know if the good welders on here chuck biblical tantrums when a weld fails or you set fire to yourself like I have done on a few occasions. Welding for some reason makes me go from calm to Victor Meldrew in seconds. But when everything goes to plan I really enjoy welding shame it dont go to plan as often as I'd like/

I am not a welder although I can weld,  I used to weld lead for roofing applications, which takes a steady hand.

 

All of the real welders I know and have known have been quite calm,steady individuals who understand what is going on in the metal.

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Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I am not a welder although I can weld,  I used to weld lead for roofing applications, which takes a steady hand.

 

All of the real welders I know and have known have been quite calm,steady individuals who understand what is going on in the metal.

hello, oh you should see some of the jobs i have done, but i like that calm and steady bit 😄

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I'm not a welder everything I have learned is from experience and you tube video's but I do a lot of axe restorations and my forge is 90% welded together so I am learning just not as fast as I'd like. 

I looked into a welding course and talk about involved. Health and Safety, molecular make up of metals, hours of theory before you even pick up an electrode holder.

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10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, that is all i use at the farm now an arc welder,  not much i cannot weld with it except of course Ally, but most jobs are steel based, your gassless mig, as i mention can produce a reasonable weld, a teflon liner, do not tighten the roller feed to much, get the wire speed and running amps correct, and keep tips clean then anti spatter spray, it just a matter of practice to get it all right,     

forgot to mention, elf and safety, welding gloves/ leather apron/ decent face mask/ and some eye wash handy, just in case

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10 minutes ago, fatchap said:

I'm not a welder everything I have learned is from experience and you tube video's but I do a lot of axe restorations and my forge is 90% welded together so I am learning just not as fast as I'd like. 

I looked into a welding course and talk about involved. Health and Safety, molecular make up of metals, hours of theory before you even pick up an electrode holder.

hello, yes its more rocket science these day, i started in 1965 using big oil cooled arc welders,  early 1970s with industrial size mig welders, now you can get both no bigger than a small suitcase, how times have changed.  

Edited by oldypigeonpopper

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We hire out all sorts of welders at work, Arc, fusion, mig, tig all pretty small, then you have the Mosa diesel welder. 450 kilo's of back breaking agony delivering one of them to a site. Then the welder says once you have wrestled it onto the tail gate and down to the deck. "Its a bit big mate. looked a lot smaller in the catalogue don't think we can get that up the stairs" 

 

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28 minutes ago, fatchap said:

We hire out all sorts of welders at work, Arc, fusion, mig, tig all pretty small

Can you have a quiet word with the boss, and borrow a decent one for a weekend, and see what difference it makes to your welding?

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