Update from BASC / DEFRA

[Big Mat]

26 minutes ago, motty said:

Plenty about, but birds going elsewhere. Not surprising, I suppose, considering they have been hit hard over the last week or so.

I've just come over to check the livestock, see plenty of pigeons on route, few drills going to 

[FOXHUNTER1]

49 minutes ago, motty said:

I don't class walking the dog as essential, but there we are.

Neither is trying to shoot pigeons 

[clangerman]

11 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER1 said:

Neither is trying to shoot pigeons 

as you would be hard pushed to find a farmer who’s a fool i think they know the difference between essential and needless or the phone would be ringing non stop 

[holloway]

19 hours ago, motty said:

I don't think the field will fail at all. In fact, most fields will never fail to pigeon damage. It is, however, damage limitation. Will the farmer get 2 tons an acre or 3?

To he honest, the sort of garbage you're posting here annoys me!

Do the farmer's crops require protecting? Yes, is the answer. 

As I keep saying, if there is no justification to shoot now, then there never should be! 

Sorry if my post is garbage and annoys you,  what i was trying to put accross was if you make your living from pest control gamekeeping etc then there is no reason  to not continue with your job if you can do it inside the social distancing guidelines. but i am struggling to understand why it is neccessary for anyone else to think that these guidelines are for others and not themselves ? most it seems are  happy to act responsibly, i have been amazed by the attitude of some in our local angling club .."this corona virus thing is spoiling our season they are saying we should be allowed to go what harm will it do ?same with all metal detecting clubs all stopped ,over the top? well maybe but most abide by it.Probably the majority of people in the country could find an excuse why they should be the exception to the rules but luckily most dont seem to and remain responsible .

I am lucky my work continues but only if customers can follow all government guidelines.The Royal college of Veterinary surgeons has requested that all routine work stops and only emergencies are treated, they have made this decision and taken it out of the individuals hands why do you think that was ? All pubs restaurants closed ,sporting events, concerts cancelled, meetings and  parties banned all schools closed ,non essential shops closed ,all flights stopped ,dentists closed ,but some need to ask is it ok for me to go shooting ? if you need to ask then it aint essential and it isnt your job is it ?

If your work is to protect crops and kill pests then i have no doubt that all can continue to work safely and within the laws, but as we have already seen on this forum one chap out on a private land all be it on a public footpath and there is one instance straight away of an emergency service being diverted from probably a lot more important work to deal with lets be very honest a fairly trivial time wasting matter that wasnt going to make a world shattering differance to the farmer, was it really ? ok the police said carry on but that could have been ill advised and a rod for there own backs in future weeks.

To me it comes down to perspective ,The biggest global crisis since ww2 against a few chaps who are above it all and dont want there fun spoilt .(OBVIOUSLY NOT INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO DO IT FOR A LIVING.)

Farmers around here all working flat out ...no calls for crop protection as yet ....but if i have a drive around i could probably find some who cant do without me.

[FOXHUNTER1]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

as you would be hard pushed to find a farmer who’s a fool i think they know the difference between essential and needless or the phone would be ringing non stop 

Really  , farmers often exaggerate.  I have been called to shoot pigeons and crows before only to arrive and nothing happening. Once received a call to shoot rabbits being told place was over run  , nothing to speak of.  The best farmers are the ones that say there aren't many , then you find the place moving .😂😂

3 minutes ago, holloway said:

Sorry if my post is garbage and annoys you,  what i was trying to put accross was if you make your living from pest control gamekeeping etc then there is no reason  to not continue with your job if you can do it inside the social distancing guidelines. but i am struggling to understand why it is neccessary for anyone else to think that these guidelines are for others and not themselves ? most it seems are  happy to act responsibly, i have been amazed by the attitude of some in our local angling club .."this corona virus thing is spoiling our season they are saying we should be allowed to go what harm will it do ?same with all metal detecting clubs all stopped ,over the top? well maybe but most abide by it.Probably the majority of people in the country could find an excuse why they should be the exception to the rules but luckily most dont seem to and remain responsible .

I am lucky my work continues but only if customers can follow all government guidelines.The Royal college of Veterinary surgeons has requested that all routine work stops and only emergencies are treated, they have made this decision and taken it out of the individuals hands why do you think that was ? All pubs restaurants closed ,sporting events, concerts cancelled, meetings and  parties banned all schools closed ,non essential shops closed ,all flights stopped ,dentists closed ,but some need to ask is it ok for me to go shooting ? if you need to ask then it aint essential and it isnt your job is it ?

If your work is to protect crops and kill pests then i have no doubt that all can continue to work safely and within the laws, but as we have already seen on this forum one chap out on a private land all be it on a public footpath and there is one instance straight away of an emergency service being diverted from probably a lot more important work to deal with lets be very honest a fairly trivial time wasting matter that wasnt going to make a world shattering differance to the farmer, was it really ? ok the police said carry on but that could have been ill advised and a rod for there own backs in future weeks.

To me it comes down to perspective ,The biggest global crisis since ww2 against a few chaps who are above it all and dont want there fun spoilt .(OBVIOUSLY NOT INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO DO IT FOR A LIVING.)

Farmers around here all working flat out ...no calls for crop protection as yet ....but if i have a drive around i could probably find some who cant do without me.

👍

[panoma1]

After Wild Justice withdrew their application for an emergency Judicial Review against DEFRA on the release of game birds, bought on, It is reported, by disclosure of DEFRA’s and the interested parties (amongst them BASC) response to their case......in light of this response, WJ allegedly withdrew its application, as it wished to substantially rethink, rewrite and re-present their application to the courts!

DEFRA have written to the courts asking that WJ’s application be refused as “vexatious and pointless” and asking that the court awards costs against WJ.

If DEFRA are successful and WJ are ruled as vexatious complainants, I imagine this will have a seriously detrimental effect on any future applications for judicial review they may think of lodging?

[craig1982]

North Yorkshires Police advice.

Police are reminding firearms certificate holders about the importance of following national coronavirus regulations.
Yesterday morning, North Yorkshire Police revoked the shotgun certificates of two men who were found to be shooting on land near Ripon on Sunday. 
The men were shooting on land where they did not have permission, and in breach of current coronavirus guidance.
Inspector Andrew Palmer, Head of Firearms Licensing at North Yorkshire Police, said:
“I would like to reiterate the advice I have given certificate holders, which is if shooting is part of your work or employment, or it has been specifically requested by a landowner to protect their crops or livestock, then it is permitted.
“However, any other shooting that is not part of a business is not essential, and should not be carried out at this time.
“We will continue to review any breach on a case-by-case basis – so with that in mind, please follow the advice which is to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives. As I have a essential workers letter from main permission and have been requested to carry out crop protection I feel fully authorised to go out and carry out crop protection. This will be done in a safe manner and using common sense in these difficult times.

 

[Scully]

That’s all that is required, common sense. 

[motty]

2 hours ago, JDog said:

Post up some of your recent outings then Motty. I need a good read.

I have been a bit reluctant, due to the relentless bleating from some. I may post something. 

[motty]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

Sorry if my post is garbage and annoys you,  what i was trying to put accross was if you make your living from pest control gamekeeping etc then there is no reason  to not continue with your job if you can do it inside the social distancing guidelines. but i am struggling to understand why it is neccessary for anyone else to think that these guidelines are for others and not themselves ? most it seems are  happy to act responsibly, i have been amazed by the attitude of some in our local angling club .."this corona virus thing is spoiling our season they are saying we should be allowed to go what harm will it do ?same with all metal detecting clubs all stopped ,over the top? well maybe but most abide by it.Probably the majority of people in the country could find an excuse why they should be the exception to the rules but luckily most dont seem to and remain responsible .

I am lucky my work continues but only if customers can follow all government guidelines.The Royal college of Veterinary surgeons has requested that all routine work stops and only emergencies are treated, they have made this decision and taken it out of the individuals hands why do you think that was ? All pubs restaurants closed ,sporting events, concerts cancelled, meetings and  parties banned all schools closed ,non essential shops closed ,all flights stopped ,dentists closed ,but some need to ask is it ok for me to go shooting ? if you need to ask then it aint essential and it isnt your job is it ?

If your work is to protect crops and kill pests then i have no doubt that all can continue to work safely and within the laws, but as we have already seen on this forum one chap out on a private land all be it on a public footpath and there is one instance straight away of an emergency service being diverted from probably a lot more important work to deal with lets be very honest a fairly trivial time wasting matter that wasnt going to make a world shattering differance to the farmer, was it really ? ok the police said carry on but that could have been ill advised and a rod for there own backs in future weeks.

To me it comes down to perspective ,The biggest global crisis since ww2 against a few chaps who are above it all and dont want there fun spoilt .(OBVIOUSLY NOT INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO DO IT FOR A LIVING.)

Farmers around here all working flat out ...no calls for crop protection as yet ....but if i have a drive around i could probably find some who cant do without me.

Why are people who are "doing it for a living" allowed to keep doing it? Key work, is it?

Why keep chirping on about emergency services? More chance of all the cyclists everywhere being hurt. 

See, I understand why pubs, cinemas, shops, flights etc have ceased to continue, as this makes perfect sense.

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i agree with Motty, if the farms he is shooting on and saving crops for this years harvest i am sure the farmers are pleased, remember the GL fiasco, ? i went up the ridgeway when the rape was in bloom, except field upon field was decimated by pigeons just bare land at least 25% of every field, farmers lost a lot of money some i know could not even harvest those parts of fields, and lost £1000s,  you have to include the cost of getting the field ready and planting/ spraying and fertilizer, not forgetting seed prices, profits will be very much deserved. if you take a 50 acre field going down to rape that cost £3000 plus to do what i mentioned, wait 6 months to grow and hope to get 6 ton per hectare, then find your down 25% at £200/250 per ton (last year prices)  its a lot to loose  

Edited April 8, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[old'un]

9 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i agree with Motty, if the farms he is shooting on and saving crops for this years harvest i am sure the farmers are pleased, remember the GL fiasco, ? i went up the ridgeway when the rape was in bloom, except field upon field was decimated by pigeons just bare land at least 25% of every field, farmers lost a lot of money some i know could not even harvest those parts of fields, and lost £1000s,  you have to include the cost of getting the field ready and planting/ spraying and fertilizer, not forgetting seed prices, profits will be very much deserved.

If there were that many pigeons destroying field after field I wonder why the farmer did not call out some shooters or put gas guns on the fields?

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, old'un said:

If there were that many pigeons destroying field after field I wonder why the farmer did not call out some shooters or put gas guns on the fields?

hello, because not all police force areas are like Mottys, i could have gone out today and yesterday  but under strict guidance from TVP so they put out some gas guns on my friends farm, lets just see what happens at harvest time,  

[Dave-G]

according to some of the posts on here, spring crop pests can now be removed from the general licence as its no longer essential unless it is done by somebody who gets paid to do it. 

Anyone got WJ's number to tell them the good news?

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

according to some of the posts on here, spring crop pests can now be removed from the general licence as its no longer essential unless it is done by somebody who gets paid to do it. 

Anyone got WJ's number to tell them the good news?

if we don’t turn out that could well come true then we would have some thing to complain about 

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, because not all police force areas are like Mottys, i could have gone out today and yesterday  but under strict guidance from TVP so they put out some gas guns on my friends farm, lets just see what happens at harvest time,  

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the rape that should have been in bloom but the pigeons had decimated it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the rape that should have been in bloom but the pigeons had decimated it.

hello, no worry oldun, and yes it was sad to see so many parts of fields like parched desert where the pigeons had been, we do not find gas guns have much effect when you have a 100 acre field

[Dave-G]

29 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, no worry oldun, and yes it was sad to see so many parts of fields like parched desert where the pigeons had been, we do not find gas guns have much effect when you have a 100 acre field

They soon learn its only a bang that doesn't hurt them. They need to be used in addition to guns that DO hurt them if they are to be at their best and as guns have not been widely used yet then don't expect them to be very effective.

[oldypigeonpopper]

5 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

They soon learn its only a bang that doesn't hurt them. They need to be used in addition to guns that DO hurt them if they are to be at their best and as guns have not been widely used yet then don't expect them to be very effective.

hello,  the gas guns are helping on my friends farm, they seem to be flitting from one field to another in small numbers and going to the next farm, that could change daily so i will be keeping ready in case i get a phone call, cheers

[old'un]

12 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

They soon learn its only a bang that doesn't hurt them. They need to be used in addition to guns that DO hurt them if they are to be at their best and as guns have not been widely used yet then don't expect them to be very effective.

I’ve always found gas guns very effective, If I pull up at a field and there’s a gas gun going off I don’t usually spend much time there.

Admittedly one gas gun on a 50+ acre field is not going to work.

[marsh man]

At the end of the day if you really want to go shooting on freshly drilled fields you can convince yourself and the different bodies you have to comply with that your services are going to protect and save that farmers crops then there is little that can stop you .

One of the members was getting excited about a sugar beet field that have just been drilled , the chances of a drilled beet field getting damaged by pigeons is virtually nil , maybe it might draw a few Rooks but there is a good chance they are looking for bits from the previous crop and certainly not the beet seed , so would that be classed as essential ?

I might be wrong but I don't think many would have to worry about losing there perms if they were self isolating due to this lock down and with now nearly 1000 losing there lives each day due to this deadly decease, you have got a very good reason why you cant go . if the farmer lose a few bob due to very minimal damage with pigeons eating a few bits of loose seed that would be nothing to all the lives being lost . 

 

 

 

 

 

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, marsh man said:

At the end of the day if you really want to go shooting on freshly drilled fields you can convince yourself and the different bodies you have to comply with that your services are going to protect and save that farmers crops then there is little that can stop you .

One of the members was getting excited about a sugar beet field that have just been drilled , the chances of a drilled beet field getting damaged by pigeons is virtually nil , maybe it might draw a few Rooks but there is a good chance they are looking for bits from the previous crop and certainly not the beet seed , so would that be classed as essential ?

I might be wrong but I don't think many would have to worry about losing there perms if they were self isolating due to this lock down and with now nearly 1000 losing there lives each day due to this deadly decease, you have got a very good reason why you cant go . if the farmer lose a few bob due to very minimal damage with pigeons eating a few bits of loose seed that would be nothing to all the lives being lost . 

 

 

 

 

 

That is how i see it marsh man.

[Farmboy91]

15 minutes ago, marsh man said:

At the end of the day if you really want to go shooting on freshly drilled fields you can convince yourself and the different bodies you have to comply with that your services are going to protect and save that farmers crops then there is little that can stop you .

One of the members was getting excited about a sugar beet field that have just been drilled , the chances of a drilled beet field getting damaged by pigeons is virtually nil , maybe it might draw a few Rooks but there is a good chance they are looking for bits from the previous crop and certainly not the beet seed , so would that be classed as essential ?

I might be wrong but I don't think many would have to worry about losing there perms if they were self isolating due to this lock down and with now nearly 1000 losing there lives each day due to this deadly decease, you have got a very good reason why you cant go . if the farmer lose a few bob due to very minimal damage with pigeons eating a few bits of loose seed that would be nothing to all the lives being lost . 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think excited is the correct word.

Your obviously correct, pigeons have left it well alone today, there was 20 or so on there yesterday not long before I called the farmer.

There has been a handful of rooks on and off it all day, not masses but a few. The particular field happens to lie right on the flight line of a great deal of rooks to where the nest up for the evening so I'm anticipating it will be long before they are on it in numbers. Time will tell and I will keep my word to the farmer and keep an eye on it. If there is an issue and they start to pull the seed up then it's time to act? 

As others have said, if crop protection isnt essential now, it never will be. 

I know I can access my entire perm without encountering another soul, and due to the lack of fences and styles I can't pick up not drop anything virus wise. 

Still not going to go out unless it's necessary though.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Farmboy91

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

That is how i see it marsh man.

Others see it differently, and as long as they are complying with whatever is expected of them then they’re free to do so.
That may well change, but currently it isn’t illegal. 
 

[clangerman]

well planned on sitting in a packed park tomorrow or could join the idiots walking about ignoring distancing maybe go shopping with the ques of shoppers but all spoilt by a farmer ringing to shoot peas so have to risk my life sitting in a empty forty acre field