Pigeon Kill Shots

[Drummer70]

Hi - I’ve returned over the past couple of years to air rifle shooting after a 20 year hiatus and have both a sub 12ft/lb and FAC rated air rifle. 

I’m pretty meticulous when I’m hunting for both rabbits and squirrels with the FAC BSA R10 (27ft/lb) air rifle favouring 20 / 30 metre head shots which I’ve pretty much nailed. However...

I’m really struggling with pigeons. I occasionally get the chance of a head shot which I’ll take but often I’m presented with a body shot which often results in a thud, a flurry of feathers and the pigeon flying off. In these instances I’m not sure if I’ve just wounded or killed the quarry. Pretty much the same results with corvids to be honest.  

I’ve read that the best shot to take is just beneath the fold of the wing (?!) 

I’ve attached a couple of photos with where I believe this area to be. Could anyone have a look and let me know if this is correct? 

Thank you all in advance for any advice, Andrew.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Drummer70

[rapid .25]

20 to 30 mtrs is pretty close for 27 ft/lb, you will probably find your pellet is going straight through your quarry.

[Drummer70]

1 minute ago, rapid .25 said:

20 to 30 mtrs is pretty close for 27 ft/lb, you will probably find your pellet is going straight through your quarry.

I’m assuming then they're flying off and dying elsewhere? 

[WalkedUp]

Both of those shots look like they are just hitting breast meat. I only ever take head shots with air rifle, just favour them, but believe the heart is much closer to its back bone. 

This is where I believe the vital organs to sit, the heart is well protected. Head and neck for me with an air rifle. 

[Drummer70]

2 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Both of those shots look like they are just hitting breast meat. I only ever take head shots with air rifle, just favour them, but believe the heart is much closer to its back bone. 

 Well I just took the comment from a Mat Manning article where he said that if he couldn’t get a head shot in he’d go for the area ‘just beneath the fold of the wing’. No idea where this area is really. I wonder if it ties in with pigeon anatomy (drawing attached). 
 

I wonder if it ties in with hitting the lungs? 

[WalkedUp]

Would be good to investigate. Freeze a pigeon and then put it under the chop saw? Think a less schematic drawing is required than that, unless it is suffering from at least a prolapse of the cloaca...

[panoma1]

.22 or .177?

[Drummer70]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

.22 or .177?

.22 

[clangerman]

sub 12 it’s a head shot or no shot on anything i shoot even rats nothing deserves to be wounded 

[Cheshirelad]

I generally try for a neck shot. There's a lot less movement than in the head, and they drop like a stone.

[panoma1]

1 minute ago, Drummer70 said:

.22 

Just wondered, as years ago when shooting ferals with a .177, the pellet hit the target.......and the pigeon often flew away, not knowing it was dead! Only to drop some distance away!

[Drummer70]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Just wondered, as years ago when shooting ferals with a .177, the pellet hit the target.......and the pigeon often flew away, not knowing it was dead! Only to drop some distance away!

This has happened to me, it’s just pot luck if you can keep an eye on where they land or drop from the sky.

I saw a video this week of a guy shooting foxes and absolutely pole-axed one fox that carried on running for 20 metres before dropping dead. 

[WalkedUp]

This shows accurate pigeon anatomy in 3D ... heart looks very protected. 

[WalkedUp]

Hard enough to see the heart on a disassembled model... going to be tricky on a live, feathered bird. Hope these images help anyway. 

[Drummer70]

31 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Hard enough to see the heart on a disassembled model... going to be tricky on a live, feathered bird. Hope these images help anyway. 

Thanks for this. The original photos weren’t a million miles off. Might look for that neck shot that others prefer if a head shot isn’t on. 

[enfieldspares]

I try for a neck/collar bone shot. To try and break the neck. But if it misses and I break the wing at the "shoulder" it isn't flying off anywhere. I think that the OP's point of aim is too low. Much too low. God created woodpigeons with those white neck markings to give us all an aiming mark. Your shot if side on should be at the change point from the white collar to the grey body immediately below it.

Edited April 5, 2020 by enfieldspares

[JKD]

Lots of overthinking going on here, and some good advice too.

A pigeon's huge and tuff breast bone will stop most [frontal and side-on] shots from getting through to the vitals. All your diagrams are only showing the soft tissue and organs,,,, you need to look at the skeletal images.

Also, most of the time, head/neck/between the shoulder blades [rear shot only] are best. My preference is the neck shot, as it is an obvious target whatever the orientation of the pigeon, and as has been mentioned, drops them instantly.

[edit to add.... Front on neck shots need to be more accurate, as you need to miss the crop, which, if full of food, will stop or deflect a pellet.]

In the tuck of the wing, as in your first image, is a good aim point if you are shooting upwards,,,, angles of 45° and above.

You still might get 'fliers', this happens to everyone.

BTW,,,, I shoot .177 in sub 12, and regularly take woodies out at up to 70 metres,,,, but only in very low or no wind conditions,,,, All with neck shots 👍

Edited April 5, 2020 by JKD
More info

[Ultrastu]

[Ultrastu]

The white feathers below the mauve ones are where the Brest bone and muscle is and you want to avoid this .also you want to be close to the wing insertion but try to miss it .as its dense and will stop a pellet .you will just break the wing joint and have a flapping about bird .

A full on head shot will result inba cart wheeling around bird .the upper chest lower neck is the best place to hit as it shuts the head and heart off at the same time  often resulting in a bird that falls off its perch without even a twitch ..

[Drummer70]

48 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

The white feathers below the mauve ones are where the Brest bone and muscle is and you want to avoid this .also you want to be close to the wing insertion but try to miss it .as its dense and will stop a pellet .you will just break the wing joint and have a flapping about bird .

A full on head shot will result inba cart wheeling around bird .the upper chest lower neck is the best place to hit as it shuts the head and heart off at the same time  often resulting in a bird that falls off its perch without even a twitch ..

Thanks for the advice - paintshop is great isn’t it? 🙂 

So can you show me the neck aim points, or are they shown above? 

 

 

[Ultrastu]

The above are the neck shots .

Its where the neck gets fatter as it joins the rest of the body and is easier to hit than further up the neck which can twist about under all those feathers and behind the crop .

[JKD]

7 hours ago, Drummer70 said:

Thanks for the advice - paintshop is great isn’t it? 🙂 

So can you show me the neck aim points, or are they shown above? 

 

 

Drummer,,,, the neck is the THINNER part just below the head !

NOT the area marked just above the wing on the last images !

Look at some skeletal only images, and re-look at the anatomy images and transfer those marked aim-points on to those, then re-read my advice in my previous post 👍

[Ultrastu]

Hit the yellow dot .try to avoid the red one 

The reason you go for the neck in this location is that it doesnt move about .

Further up towards the head its moving back and forwards side to side as the bird walks or looks about  .

Its also thicker here and closer to the heart and lungs  

[WalkedUp]

Just now, Ultrastu said:

Hit the yellow dot .try to avoid the red one 

 

I agree to avoid the red dot, I highlighted purely to show location of heart, protected by closed wing, breast muscle and breast bone. 
 

As a slight tangent ... I wait for head shots. You can see the head clearly and find the “stalk” is the excitement. No wounded birds, clean kill or clean miss. 

[Ultrastu]

The primary organ on a bird is its heart .not its brain .in mamals its the brain not heart ..

This means that a shot to the birds heart will shut its nervous system down fast .

The head shot will only make the  nervous  system go into overdrive. With the adrenaline firing into the heart .the bird will flap like crazy - possibly  even fly somewhat ..(we can see this with the classic .cut a chickens head off and it will run around before  dropping) 

The neck shot is best as it stops the heart and brain at the same time and you get that stone dead effect where the bird makes no reaction .

 

Ps in mamals the head is better than the heart .the neck again is best for it does the same stopping both  

 

This is why i dont advocate bird head shots .its a small  often moving target that results in a dead but flapping bird .which can make retrieval tricky,  or leave observers thinking the bird  is injured