oisin og Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Snide comment! Nothing snide about it. The video clip shows clearly what the Tory party think of the NHS, especially the nurses. The cheering of the Tory back benches when the motion was defeated can be fairly characterised as both triumphalist and derisive. That’s how much they value NHS front line staff. You may choose to laud a newly chastened Boris as the champion of the NHS but the record of both he and his party belie that. Do not seek to tarnish me with the actions of those horrible people who would take satisfaction in the PM’s illness: they are beneath contempt. However, I am not prepared to permit him pose as the defender of the NHS when nothing could be further from the truth. He and his political allies have emasculated the NHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 he is a good man, glad he is getting better, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 I'd put money on nurses getting a good pay increase in the near future. However that has to be done with care because once they get it almost everyone else will want it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, A tad before parliament and the NHS but, anyone can make a mistake, and another old saying is "you learn from them" and one of the best ways of learning. And as Dave G states i bet things will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, Dave-G said: I'd put money on nurses getting a good pay increase in the near future. However that has to be done with care because once they get it almost everyone else will want it too. Why shouldn’t everyone else get them though? I am considered front line in Social Work ... should nurses get a pay rise but I shouldn’t? 🤔 I currently work in the hospital, often having to tell the wards what to do so they don’t do anything unlawful etc around discharges. These ward discharge managers are already paid quite a bit more than me... then I have to tell them what to do on anything even slightly complex. 🤷♂️ The problem is a lot of public sector areas have stagnated in pay for a long time now. Wages wise the buying power of our salary is supposed to be down 26% since 10 years ago ... hell of a cut that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Why shouldn’t everyone else get them though? I am considered front line in Social Work ... should nurses get a pay rise but I shouldn’t? 🤔 I currently work in the hospital, often having to tell the wards what to do so they don’t do anything unlawful etc around discharges. These ward discharge managers are already paid quite a bit more than me... then I have to tell them what to do on anything even slightly complex. 🤷♂️ The problem is a lot of public sector areas have stagnated in pay for a long time now. Wages wise the buying power of our salary is supposed to be down 26% since 10 years ago ... hell of a cut that. Bad wording on my part sorry, blame dyslexia - I meant EVERYONE, not just front line people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Bad wording on my part sorry, blame dyslexia - I meant EVERYONE, not just front line people. Yep lets all pay more tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, oowee said: Yep lets all pay more tax. We’ll be doing that anyway. The government was hinting at tax rises when they were announcing the plans to keep the economy afloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: The problem is a lot of public sector areas have stagnated in pay for a long time now. Wages wise the buying power of our salary is supposed to be down 26% since 10 years ago ... hell of a cut that Not half as long as wages in the private sector - they in some industries declined as much as 30% between 2000 and 2008 and have continued to decline until relatively recently. NHS workers did very well under the last labour government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, Yellow Bear said: Not half as long as wages in the private sector - they in some industries declined as much as 30% between 2000 and 2008 and have continued to decline until relatively recently. NHS workers did very well under the last labour government. Private sector doesn’t have fixed pay scales and bands each year... My partner and many friends have been getting very good pay increases year on year. +12% some years... always at least 6%. Public sector below inflation increases year on year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, oowee said: Yep lets all pay more tax. And have more inflation? 6 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Not half as long as wages in the private sector - they in some industries declined as much as 30% between 2000 and 2008 and have continued to decline until relatively recently. This /\ When I retired, most of us where I worked in the private sector had no pay increases between 2009 and when I retired (2016). The vast majority of both 'private sector' and 'public sector' employee positions had little or no increase after the 2008 financial 'crash' right through for several years - but at least it was a period when inflation was low, but the vast majority of working people took a cut in 'real pay', or had to change jobs - which was in effect the best way to get an increase ........ which was possible because employment was increasing and unemployment declining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: And have more inflation? This /\ When I retired, most of us where I worked in the private sector had no pay increases between 2009 and when I retired (2016). The vast majority of both 'private sector' and 'public sector' employee positions had little or no increase after the 2008 financial 'crash' right through for several years - but at least it was a period when inflation was low, but the vast majority of working people took a cut in 'real pay', or had to change jobs - which was in effect the best way to get an increase ........ which was possible because employment was increasing and unemployment declining. The question is are the NHS staff worth it? It cant be right that someone after 6 years of training to be a junior doctor, working hands on with a corona patient, risking death and facing life and death decisions every day, working a 12 hour shift, gets £30k a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: but the vast majority of working people took a cut in 'real pay', or had to change jobs - which was in effect the best way to get an increase It was the only way and you still took a cut in real pay. I had to change jobs every 2 years for 8 years before i retired in 2013 and I was still effectively on less money than I was before 2000. I stopped a year early as swmbo had done rather well in her NHS job from '98 onwards. 2 minutes ago, oowee said: The question is are the NHS staff worth it? It cant be right that someone after 6 years of training to be a junior doctor, working hands on with a corona patient, risking death and facing life and death decisions every day, working a 12 hour shift, gets £30k a year. Yes they undoubtedly are, however many who are not "piggy back" on them for more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, oowee said: The question is are the NHS staff worth it? It cant be right that someone after 6 years of training to be a junior doctor, working hands on with a corona patient, risking death and facing life and death decisions every day, working a 12 hour shift, gets £30k a year. I cannot put a price on jobs, BUT there are many occupations where the juniors start on low rates (I have two (relatively) junior doctors in my family) - but the pay for the higher grades is much better. It was just the same in engineering where I worked ........ except that the higher grades were less well paid than in the medical profession I suspect. As for risking death - that is somewhat exceptional (agree we are there at the moment) - and actually many people in life make complex decisions with far reaching implications including life and death. Put simply - you obviously cannot just pay everyone more without grave consequences. Does the pay across professions need 'rebalancing'? Yes - I think it does, but who is going to tell the accountants and lawyers they must get get less 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I cannot put a price on jobs, BUT there are many occupations where the juniors start on low rates (I have two (relatively) junior doctors in my family) - but the pay for the higher grades is much better. It was just the same in engineering where I worked ........ except that the higher grades were less well paid than in the medical profession I suspect. As for risking death - that is somewhat exceptional (agree we are there at the moment) - and actually many people in life make complex decisions with far reaching implications including life and death. Put simply - you obviously cannot just pay everyone more without grave consequences. Does the pay across professions need 'rebalancing'? Yes - I think it does, but who is going to tell the accountants and lawyers they must get get less 🤣 That is the nub of the problem. Easy to say yes and hard to say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearwater Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 He needs plenty rest and come out fighting as the 'opposition' need a word of clarity that everyone are doing their best in a crisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) He's a good salesman. Nevertheless, there's a reason that when this is all over and the numbers get crunched that the UK will have been the most badly affected nation in Europe . Sometimes words don't cut it. As I've posted before, I'm not actually directly blaming Johnson's government for the tardy and disorganized response - although if they'd had their wits about them they could have mitigated the worst of the plan they were handed. But that would gave been exceptionally good government and you shouldn't blame anyone for not being exceptionally good. But just in terms of normal government and for the good of the country, the fantasies need to stop. Edited April 13, 2020 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Retsdon said: He's a good salesman. Nevertheless, there's a reason that when this is all over and the numbers get crunched that the UK will have been the most badly affected nation in Europe . Sometimes words don't cut it. As I've posted before, I'm not actually directly blaming Johnson's government for the tardy and disorganized response - although if they'd had their wits about them they could have mitigated the worst of the plan they were handed. But that would gave been exceptionally good government. But just in terms of normal government and for the good of the country, the fantasies need to stop. How do you know we will be the most badly affected in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, stumfelter said: How do you know we will be the most badly affected in Europe? Just wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, Retsdon said: Just wait. Ah I see, just guessing then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Nevertheless, there's a reason that when this is all over and the numbers get crunched that the UK will have been the most badly affected nation in Europe . Being the most densely populated in europe then it probably explains why we will be hit harder than other countries in europe, couple in the fact that we are an air hub, and we have an efficient internal public transport system, the virus was spread around the country probably very quickly, And looking at all the people still ignoring the lockdown and acting like there is nothing wrong, then this virus will continue to spread. No matter what government was at the helm it was going to hit us hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, stumfelter said: Ah I see, just guessing then... No. Looking at the charts and the numbers. Anyway, it's all in the future so maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Retsdon said: Just wait. How do you define “most affected”? total cases? total cases by population? total cases by population density? Make it up to suit your own agenda? At the end of the day we are here and you are not so why does it bother you. If I was you I would be more interested in what Saudi are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Being the most densely populated in europe Belgium and Holland are more densely populated. 2 minutes ago, AVB said: How do you define “most affected”? total cases? total cases by population? total cases by population density? Make it up to suit your own agenda? At the end of the day we are here and you are not so why does it bother you. If I was you I would be more interested in what Saudi are doing. Your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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