True origin of Covid

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But it's all irrelevant. It's like the right wing stuff about immigration. If you go somewhere like Bradford, you're in a foreign country. But there's no solution short of ...

It's like that with the origins of Covid. Did it originate in a lab or was it a zoonotic transfer? Unless you're in the business of ,making political mischief the question is pointless at this point in time. The question right now is how do to curtail and better still, roll back the spread of this virus. If you want to point fingers save it for later.

 

I'm not so sure, if the Chinese have caused this through irresponsible practice at wet markets, or irresponsible practices at a lab, the Chinese must face action from the international community severe enough to ensure they end whatever caused it, to do that, the correct questions must be asked and the truth bottomed out, otherwise what stops this happening again and the next time it could be a virus that spreads like covid, with a 50% mortality rate.

[henry d]

20 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But it's all irrelevant.  

Agreed, Pandora's box is open

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

, if

There's your problem right there.

[henry d]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm not so sure, if the Chinese have caused this through irresponsible practice at wet markets, or irresponsible practices at a lab, the Chinese must face action from the international community...

So why don't we go after the continent of Africa for releasing SIV/HIV through irresponsible practices (bush meat) at their markets?

[Retsdon]

Anyway, can't believe John Prine has gone. For anyone who doesn't' know this bloke, just do some YouTube searches and listen to some of his songs. Then perhaps watch  some of his interviews. Whatever, not a big deal. But I recommend spending some time checking him out......

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, henry d said:

So why don't we go after the continent of Africa for releasing SIV/HIV through irresponsible practices (bush meat) at their markets?

Got to be honest, you educated me on that subject on another thread and I don't know enough about that to form an opinion, was the government in that area in enough control to affect whether it's people ate bush meat? If so, it's a good question.

7 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

There's your problem right there.

Yes very true, it's the tricky bit.

[Lord v]

47 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Nothing that's ever going to work.

So why did the tracking apps that SK China etc work? 

 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Lord v said:

So why did the tracking apps that SK China etc work? 

 

Mandatory

...which raises a whole bunch of questions, but the debate ( tracking V privacy) should be out there in the public domain., Anyway, the Apps never going to get out of the bit so the debate is a just noise/

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Retsdon

[Lord v]

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Mandatory

 

But wait, you just said the UK had no plans for track and trace. 

Now your argument is that its plan is ineffective. 

What's Saudi doing in regards to track and trace? 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Lord v

[Gordon R]

John Prine ?????

Forget that - Norman Hunter died. One of my former staff used to work at a school were Norman's kids attended. She said he was one of the most genuine people you would ever meet.

Top footballer and top bloke. 

That said, anyone dying from this is a tragedy.

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, Lord v said:

What's Saudi doing in regards to track and trace? 

🤣

Listening to John Prine' 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Retsdon

[Gordon R]

Very similar to Leonard Cohen - acclaimed, but boring.

[Mighty Ruler]

Yeah it is irrelevant, they’ve probably been irresponsible either way but they haven’t deliberately released a man made virus. But I couldn’t really care less if they are getting some stick, Chinese officials claimed the Americans had created the virus and released it in China.

Also, they played down the seriousness of it at the beginning and possibly still are. This led to the West not being as prepared as we should have been.

[Lord v]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

🤣

Listening to John Prine' 

 

 

Honestly not my cup of tea. 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

Very similar to Leonard Cohen - acclaimed, but boring.

Nothing like Leonard Cohen! Jesus...whole different ...impossible to compare..

[Gordon R]

He is nothing like Leonard Cohen, other than some people obviously thought he was a genius, whereas he was merely boring.

[Retsdon]

Just now, Gordon R said:

He is nothing like Leonard Cohen, other than some people obviously thought he was a genius, whereas he was merely boring.

Well, whatever gordon, you're right and most of contemporary musical opinion is wrong. My thing about John Prine is less about the music (although he's generally recognized as one of the great song writers of the late 20th century) than it is about him being such an essentially good person. His morality just shines thought his stuff and as far as he can he's trying to pushe the world into being a better place. But I don't expect you to understand that...so no problem.

[Gordon R]

Quote

 But I don't expect you to understand that...so no problem.

Please don't patronise me. If indeed most of contemporary musical opinion thinks he was a genius, then that is indeed wrong. "Generally recognised" - code for a few.

I think we are in danger of letting one boring person from the music industry side track a serious subject.

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Please don't patronise me. If indeed most of contemporary musical opinion thinks he was a genius, then that is indeed wrong. "Generally recognised" - code for a few.

I think we are in danger of letting one boring person from the music industry side track a serious subject.

here you go..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZKscRo0Dl8

 

[old man]

9 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm not so sure, if the Chinese have caused this through irresponsible practice at wet markets, or irresponsible practices at a lab, the Chinese must face action from the international community severe enough to ensure they end whatever caused it, to do that, the correct questions must be asked and the truth bottomed out, otherwise what stops this happening again and the next time it could be a virus that spreads like covid, with a 50% mortality rate.

Personally not sure the Chinese state would give a fig about any action? They maybe have so much invested in global technology, finance and infrastructure as to be immune?

[oldypigeonpopper]

23 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i would not put anything past the Chinese government to silence people, it is a Virology lab in Wuhan, as a side note the USA gave a 3.7 million $ grant

hello, it seems France and Canada also gave grants to this Wuhan Lab,

[Smokersmith]

Why start a thread with the word True in it, then fill it with carp? 
 

[Ttfjlc]

10 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Why start a thread with the word True in it, then fill it with carp? 
 

 To stay true to Pigeonwatch tradition?

[Raja Clavata]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

There's lots out there, but here's a piece from the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-52318539

 

It's all circumstance related, but id say it pushes the chances of a lab release up to at least as likely as a natural accident at the market.

Just to highlight what we, the public, are dealing with here. The opening gambit in the BBC article states that "US State Dept cables show that embassy officials were worried about biosecurity at a virus lab in Wuhan".

Then there is this Reuters report which basically says the US, due to trade tensions with China, pulled the plug on their person acting as the eyes and ears on the ground, again the opening gambit reads "Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned".

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc-expert-job-in-china-months-before-virus-outbreak-idUKKBN21910S

So, if it was a leak from a lab then it seems neither "side" is particualrly clean in all this - but yes the majority of blame should fall on China, no denying that. As with all disasters it's usually a sequence of improbable events that lead to the end result.

With respect to the origin of the virus, the BBC article states "a US study of the coronavirus genome published in March found no signs it had been engineered . "By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," co-author Kristian Andersen, from Scripps Research in California, said at the time."

Further down in the BBC article it cites a statement from a China foreign ministry spokesman, Zhao Lijian, who told journalists "World Health Organization's officials have said multiple times there is no evidence the new coronavirus was created in a laboratory".

To state the obvious, there is a difference between "created in" and "escaped from".

[henry d]

Here's a good Article