Squirrel Feeder in the Garden

[Drummer70]

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Click on that link to the BASC website I put in my first post and have a read.  It contains links to the PDFs of the Welsh GLs issued by NRW

I’ve read it. 
 

So killing of those listed birds to protect chicks and adult birds listed in the licence is permissible.
 

There’s no mention of settings, either rural or urban, does not mention context and allows entrapment. Coaxing the birds to a feeding station does not constitute   an offence because it’s not mentioned. 
 

Have I got it right?

[figgy]

I e always shot corvids on the GL as they take songbirds eggs and young out if the nests in my garden hedges. 

Awful to see them working along a hedge taking chicks and the parents going nuts trying to stop them.

[JKD]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

No that's not my interpretation.  Where on earth did you get that from?

 

I have an idea, you may have a different idea.  Neither is good enough.  If the Welsh GL was to preclude such a thing, it would have to set out precisely what it defined as suburban. 

I've read one of the four, and it doesn't (GL004, pdf) and it makes no mention of gardens, suburban or otherwise.

English, and indeed Welsh law is predicated on the fact that you are allowed to do something unless the specifically legislated for otherwise.

Honestly, I've said to the OP and I'll say it to you, it is incumbent on us as shooters to read and comply with the terms of the applicable GL.  I do not understand the reticence of some people on here to actually go ahead and read it.  If your reading comprehension is that low that you cannot understand it, I would suggest re-evaluating whether you should have an SGC.  They are written in a pretty straight-forward manner, by government document standards anyway.

So, I ask again, where in the Welsh GLs does it preclude the use of undertaking these activities in a suburban garden?

 

 

OK, my last comment because you obviously don't understand the actual wordings on the WELSH [UK] GL's.

The GL doesn't list [preclude] places or situations that anyone CAN'T shoot the birds listed on it. It lists the circumstances in which anyone CAN shoot the birds listed on it and the reasons why,,,, and shooting birds [which are all protected] in your garden because the birds are eating the bird seed etc that you put out for the birds, isn't listed as one of the reasons that you CAN shoot them.

Now do you understand ?

And, I don't have an SGC. Another presumption by someone who's "reading comprehension is that low" etc etc.

Good luck to the OP, and hope you are successful in your goal,,,, or should that be garden 👍

[Walker570]

Ignore the birds and get that flip top built and whack and stack those tree rats and that would be the best thing you could do for those songbirds.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, JKD said:

lists the circumstances in which anyone CAN shoot the birds listed on it and the reasons why

It's still your interpretation, on the basis of not knowing someone else's circumstances fully, that he can't do something, when he doesn't even live in the same legal jursidiction as you, and you're making sweeping statements about what is and isn't allowed.

 

1 hour ago, JKD said:

OK, my last comment because you obviously don't understand the actual wordings on the WELSH [UK] GL's.

No such animal as a Welsh (UK) GL.  The English GL's issued by DEFRA (and formerly Natural England) and Welsh ones issued by NRW.  Have you looked at the Welsh one?  Yes they both are based on the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as the primary legislation, but the wording and quarry species vary.

Section 5 of GL no 4 could, for example, be pertinent

Quote

Birds listed in paragraph 2(i) of this licence may only be killed or taken in order to deter the predation of chicks and eggs of species of birds listed on Annex 1 of this licence. Killing or taking of birds listed in paragraph 2(i) in order to protect adults of species of birds listed on Annex 1 of this licence or in order to protect any other species of bird may constitute an offence.

For all you know, there may be nests in his immediate area that he is aware of and looking to protect.

But if you make a sweeping statement (You can't shoot birds in a suburban garden) on a public forum, that is blatantly untrue, expect to be called out on it. 

Now, this doesn't mean of course, that the OP, having read the GL, won't reach the conclusion that  he doesn't meet the terms any of the Welsh GLs, in his specific set of circumstances. 

1 hour ago, JKD said:

And, I don't have an SGC. Another presumption by someone who's "reading comprehension is that low" etc etc.

I didn't say you did.  QED.

 

[steve s×s]

11 hours ago, Drummer70 said:

Good morning all!

I’m just looking at some advice from the more learned members of the forum. 
 

I have a squirrel feeder in the garden that has attracted rats (dispatched) and squirrels (ditto). But my biggest problem are the jackdaws that absolutely batter the peanuts. It’s only something I’ve noticed since being at home, as we all are due to the current challenges. They will come down mob handed to the feeder all through the day and I’m quite resentful of the fact that my hard earned is essentially going down the gullets of these *******. 
 

What is the present situation with stopping these raids? I’m so confused with the general licence conditions (I’m in Wales btw) I have  no idea if it would be legal for me to take a shot at them. The internet just throws out conflicting opinions which is if very little help. 
 

any assistance would be gratefully received!

 

Andrew. 

Having read the full post, We (shooters, conservationists, ect) all know that the GL restrictions are in place not with wild life uppermost in mind🤔,( shock horror) do some people still not know this, my take on this for what it's worth is crack on (discreetly), this might not be to everyones liking but it's Right 

[Drummer70]

I think the more pertinent point is the cause and effect of an outcome that may be as a result of a reasonable legal argument. Air rifle goes off unintentionally, pellet is sky bound into the village. Is it reasonable behaviour to be shooting at the Jackdaws in the back garden? I would imagine those are the issues the police would get you on,  even if you could argue a good case regarding Corvid predation under the GL. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Drummer70

[JKD]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It's still your interpretation, on the basis of not knowing someone else's circumstances fully, that he can't do something, when he doesn't even live in the same legal jursidiction as you, and you're making sweeping statements about what is and isn't allowed.

 

No such animal as a Welsh (UK) GL.  The English GL's issued by DEFRA (and formerly Natural England) and Welsh ones issued by NRW.  Have you looked at the Welsh one?  Yes they both are based on the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as the primary legislation, but the wording and quarry species vary.

Section 5 of GL no 4 could, for example, be pertinent

For all you know, there may be nests in his immediate area that he is aware of and looking to protect.

But if you make a sweeping statement (You can't shoot birds in a suburban garden) on a public forum, that is blatantly untrue, expect to be called out on it. 

Now, this doesn't mean of course, that the OP, having read the GL, won't reach the conclusion that  he doesn't meet the terms any of the Welsh GLs, in his specific set of circumstances. 

I didn't say you did.  QED.

 

Oh dear.... You really don't understand the OP's question and my answer do you ? You crack on with your misguided thoughts and r's covering drivel,,,, tata 👋👋👋🤣🤣🤣

Sorry to the OP for his thread getting filled by misinformation from AN Other,,,, you crack on 👍

[strimmer_13]

Got a decent back stop? Can the pellet leave the premises? If that's a yes and no, carry on 

[Drummer70]

Well...

the garden is fenced to 6ft side and rear then farmers field on the other side. Backstop is a concrete post plus feeder back piece then block garage behind it and to the side inaccessible dense wood. But ‘technically’ the pellet could leave the premises shooting above the wood. 

[Drummer70]

As a point of interest I’m sure I saw an article in the BASC magazine by Matt Manning setting up to shoot rats I think at his friends house. I’d have to dig out the copy to be more accurate. He was in the guy’s garden, set up a concrete slab as a back stop. So I’m assuming he too was probably shooting in an environment where a pellet could possibly leave the premises. 
 

Anybody want to buy an air rifle? 🤑

[udderlyoffroad]

12 hours ago, JKD said:

Oh dear.... You really don't understand the OP's question and my answer do you

You answer was a broad sweeping statement that was untrue.  I called you out on it.

My answer was that he need to read the welsh GLs and decide for himself.  As only he knows all of his circumstances.

As this thread has gone on, and we know more info from the OP, it's looking less likely that he meets the terms of the Welsh GLs.  But again that rests with him.

Have you actually read the Welsh GLs?

12 hours ago, JKD said:

Sorry to the OP for his thread getting filled by misinformation from AN Other,,,, you crack on 👍

I linked to BASC's website where the Welsh GLs are laid out in detail.  You started your usual comma diarrhoea and made untrue statements.   QED.

Edited May 1, 2020 by udderlyoffroad

[JKD]

8 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You answer was a broad sweeping statement that was untrue.  I called you out on it.

My answer was that he need to read the welsh GLs and decide for himself.  As only he knows all of his circumstances.

As this thread has gone on, and we know more info from the OP, it's looking less likely that he meets the terms of the Welsh GLs.  But again that rests with him.

Have you actually read the Welsh GLs?

I linked to BASC's website where the Welsh GLs are laid out in detail.  You started your usual comma diarrhoea and made untrue statements.   QED.

Sorry fella,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but the only diarrhoea I'm seeing is coming from you 🤣🤣🤣

Now can you please stop your R's covering non-sensible replies on this thread as you are spoiling what was a good thread,,,,,,,, until you popped up 🙄

 

Apologies to the OP once again 😕

[WalkedUp]

15 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Ignore the birds and get that flip top built and whack and stack those tree rats and that would be the best thing you could do for those songbirds.

I agree, it’s almost impossible to make a dent in corvid population in your garden if you back onto farm land etc. The population pool is just too big and range too far. However I kill every squirrel on sight. My wife messages me if she sees one, and expects it dead. It’s far easier to clear squirrels and give song birds a chance. I don’t currently shoot corvids on my own land as once I start it will become a life’s work 🤣

[Drummer70]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

As this thread has gone on, and we know more info from the OP, it's looking less likely that he meets the terms of the Welsh GLs.  But again that rests with him.

I don’t really agree with that statement. How can you judge whether or not the terms are met? To protect songbirds and their eggs, do you have to see the Corvids snatching the eggs before having just cause? By being so close to heavy woodland and a substantial amount of songbird activity in my garden which is surrounded by trees and hedges, I would argue that I would be justified. You could argue the same with squirrels I guess. How many of us have seen a squirrel predate on a songbird’s chicks or seen them bark strip? 
 

I think my biggest problem is guaranteeing the safety to other members of the public.  To say 100% that my pellets cannot leave the perimeter of my garden is impossible, no matter how safely I conduct my shooting. 

[Mice!]

26 minutes ago, Drummer70 said:

think my biggest problem is guaranteeing the safety to other members of the public.  To say 100% that my pellets cannot leave the perimeter of my garden is impossible, no matter how safely I conduct my shooting. 

If you shoot from an upstairs window your pellet won't leave the garden, if you miss the squirrel it will be in the ground. 

The squirrel feeders at Formby are caged to keep the Corvids off the food, they just sit around waiting for scraps, I'm sure if you did something similar then the jackdaws would stop coming,  but not while there is an easy meal.

[Bobba]

In England I rely on the GL34 for the protection of wild birds and see no reason why the OP could not rely on the Welsh GL 04 if circumstances justify killing the Jackdaws.

I live in the middle of Bristol and my garden backs on to a large allotment which attracts many magpies. Friends and neighbours have witnessed magpies raiding nests and taking chicks. So, to protect the nesting birds I reduce the magpie population. I sit quietly in my lounge, French windows open, and shoot within my back garde. AA S410 silenced. It does not attract the attention of neighbours. If challenged I would use witnesses and the GL as a defence that I was protecting wild birds.

[Ultrastu]

Always best to get photo and video .proof to back up your position .

[Drummer70]

On that note this is the feeder and the shooting position is the second pic to the left of the conifer  about 15m from the feeder.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Drummer70

[old man]

1 hour ago, Drummer70 said:

I don’t really agree with that statement. How can you judge whether or not the terms are met? To protect songbirds and their eggs, do you have to see the Corvids snatching the eggs before having just cause? By being so close to heavy woodland and a substantial amount of songbird activity in my garden which is surrounded by trees and hedges, I would argue that I would be justified. You could argue the same with squirrels I guess. How many of us have seen a squirrel predate on a songbird’s chicks or seen them bark strip? 
 

I think my biggest problem is guaranteeing the safety to other members of the public.  To say 100% that my pellets cannot leave the perimeter of my garden is impossible, no matter how safely I conduct my shooting. 

The difference maybe, squirrels and rats are classified as vermin, all birds are protected.

At the end of the day it could end up as a test of how deep are your pockets and how much stress your nerves could take if you were to end up in court?  

Concrete slab or into the ground, good backstops as just proved by another dead rat.😀

Edited May 1, 2020 by old man

[WalkedUp]

23 minutes ago, Drummer70 said:

On that note this is the feeder and the shooting position is the second pic to the left of the conifer  about 15m from the feeder.

I would move the feeder in from the boundary and lower to the ground if you are going to shoot off it. You need a good backstop. I treat my air rifles the same as my FAC rifles. 

[Drummer70]

11 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I would move the feeder in from the boundary and lower to the ground if you are going to shoot off it. You need a good backstop. I treat my air rifles the same as my FAC rifles. 

I did think of that but the slate fence would provide a springboard to the cat. 
 

I think I’m going to get a steel plate and fix it behind the post. My neighbour is quite happy with what I’m doing, especially when I showed her were the rats were living between my fence and her garage. 
 

Right practicalities, cost of a cheap sheet of steel? Would 5mm thick be too thin? 
 

EDIT: Yeah, good point about moving it across to the next post, I’d have the added security of the garage behind the fence. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Drummer70

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Drummer70 said:

I don’t really agree with that statement. How can you judge whether or not the terms are met?

I'm not judging whether you meet the terms, just saying it looked that way as we got more info.  It rests with you. 

And, please don't misunderstand me, I applaud your efforts, both in seeking to be responsible/comply with the law and to protect songbirds 👍

5mm steel will be heavy as all hell, noisy, risk ricochets* and corrode.  Can you try 'earthworks' instead as a backstop?

*Yes I know we're talking a 12ft.lb air rifle pellet here, but still.

[Drummer70]

My understanding of earthworks is a mound of soil. Is that what you mean?

[udderlyoffroad]

18 minutes ago, Drummer70 said:

My understanding of earthworks is a mound of soil. Is that what you mean?

Yes, something that dissipates the energy of a projectile slowly, rather than steel.  Compost heap, mound of earth, elevated firing position so it buries itself in the ground etc.

My steel catalogue lists 5mm hot rolled plate at 39.25 kg/m^2.  Just saying...