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lancer425

Early webley Vulcan FT/LBS.

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I have an old webly Vulcan 177 its untouched from new apart from the safetey catch failing in the 1980s and me removing it and never bothering refiting it.

IIt seems to be working ok, but its age and the amount of use its had over around 40 years. i wonder if it needs a spring.  I Thought about trying a titan xs spring, but i am scared it might go over 12ftlbs.   Has any experienced fitting such springs in these webleys?  Is it a real worry or do they generally struggle to get into trouble with such springs installed. ?  Any other options on a spring, that will give a improvement without breaking the limit . Am i worrying too much here do these ever get near 12ft lbs. ?

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First place to check is the piston seal, if it’s got the plastic one then a upgrade to a parachute seal will do wonders for it but it might get a bit hot if the spring is good so would be worth checking if you do change it. 

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No not really looked online, Might check youtube. Basically thought i would ask here.   I will look into the seal Rovercoupe thanks.

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Posted (edited)

The recommended titan spring for a Vulcan is a number 8 and will be on or over the limit at full length.

Alternatively you could try a no 7 which is easier to compress into the action being 40mm and 4 coils shorter but otherwise identical and add back into the spring column a thrust bearing and washers at either or both ends end of the spring fitment allowing to allow spring to rotate smoothly as it compresses and uncompresses.

Power would be down slightly from full and gun would be sweeter to shoot.

 

New piston and barrel seal at same time, deburr any cocking slot internal edges etc before inserting new piston seal.

 

Any access to a chrono to see what speed and power gun is putting out just now?

Edited by Stonepark

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45 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

The recommended titan spring for a Vulcan is a number 8 and will be on or over the limit at full length.

Alternatively you could try a no 7 which is easier to compress into the action being 40mm and 4 coils shorter but otherwise identical and add back into the spring column a thrust bearing and washers at either or both ends end of the spring fitment allowing to allow spring to rotate smoothly as it compresses and uncompresses.

Power would be down slightly from full and gun would be sweeter to shoot.

 

New piston and barrel seal at same time, deburr any cocking slot internal edges etc before inserting new piston seal.

 

Any access to a chrono to see what speed and power gun is putting out just now?

I like this idea lots, its my way of thinking. Any precise details on thrust washers bearings i would need please.?

 I do have chance to borrow a chronograph an F1 but its 4o miles away in Gainsbourgh. I am sure as i can be its down a bit. Any sort of rule of thumb test to tell if a .177 air rifle is on or close to 12ft lbs. I  have been using RWS hobby in it recently but mostly wasps its whole life.

1 hour ago, washerboy said:

Chambers, standard spring will shoot legal limit no trouble if correctly fitted

I think it must have been about legal limit when new i must admit. it could still be up there but just seems a bit down on what i remember, but so out of touch with air rifles i could have easy miss judged it.

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20 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I like this idea lots, its my way of thinking. Any precise details on thrust washers bearings i would need please.?

Measure diameter of inside of your piston to see what will fit and choose tightest you can get in and out without jamming. Usually come in  18, 19, 20 or 22 outside diameter and a couple of quid each.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Measure diameter of inside of your piston to see what will fit and choose tightest you can get in and out without jamming. Usually come in  18, 19, 20 or 22 outside diameter and a couple of quid each.

:good:Cheers.

Just one more dumb question do i go for the normal ball bearing style thrust bearings or any advantage to buying the slight taper roller bearing style to spread more impact forces over a less concentrated area.?

 do i use normal ball bearing type. here  or the slight taper roller type below.?

Thrust Ball Bearings: 10mm - 35mm Bore

i mean like this when say slight taper style. Am i overthinking this.

image.jpeg.4f5348775d54700cf732c4a5df6f597e.jpeg

Edited by lancer425

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13 hours ago, lancer425 said:

:good:Cheers.

Just one more dumb question do i go for the normal ball bearing style thrust bearings or any advantage to buying the slight taper roller bearing style to spread more impact forces over a less concentrated area.?

 do i use normal ball bearing type. here  or the slight taper roller type below.?

Thrust Ball Bearings: 10mm - 35mm Bore

i mean like this when say slight taper style. Am i overthinking this.

image.jpeg.4f5348775d54700cf732c4a5df6f597e.jpeg

I use the BB type but if it does same job either would work.

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6 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

I use the BB type but if it does same job either would work.

Thank you i think i will go with the Ball race type too.

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I have asked this question before but no one came up with an answer, so will try again.

From what I understand it is the volume of air that increases power and not how powerful the spring is, there must be a sweet spot where the spring is strong enough to compress the air contained in the chamber and drive the pellet out of the gun, given that the volume of air within the chamber does not change how will a stronger spring increase power?

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Harder spring just means it will go faster and compress the air quicker, kind of being punched lightly and then punched really hard same mass just moving quicker.  Air is obviously compressible but it gets to a point where the pellet like a cork has to go pop and starts on it’s merry way down the barrel.
 

there is a sweet spot between chamber size and spring tension, the Diana 48/52 have a huge chamber and if you fit a really lazy spring it becomes super soft to shoot but feels like a eternity from pulling the trigger to the thing actually firing but it’s quite good once used to it. Think it’s termed as lock time? 
 

im no expert but think the above is right?

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Posted (edited)

Just buy a Welsh Willie or tinbum drop in kit, no thrust washers needed the PTFE too hat and spring guides take care of it. Come with lubes and you can watch videos of how to fit the kit.

Ant renewal.of spring will need verification over a chrono, I'd go for high 10's or 11as it'll creep up as it beds in to about 11.5/6ftlb. Many set at 11.7 when new spring is fitted will end up way over as they bed in. Out and out power isn't needed smooth delivery is.

Ps the ball thrust race washers would be knackered in no time, all that force slamming into the balls and races time and again.  Wouldn't bother with the roller ones either as the PTFE washers are slippery as you can get. Be lucky if you got anywhere near a 1/4 turn of twist on cocking a long spring.

Edited by figgy

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Vulcan was just about the very first British Air Rifle truly capable of nudging the legal limit - replace everything with standard parts and keep the gun as original as possible - makes it easier to sell should you decide to and retains its character - just my opinion though.

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1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

Vulcan was just about the very first British Air Rifle truly capable of nudging the legal limit - replace everything with standard parts and keep the gun as original as possible - makes it easier to sell should you decide to and retains its character - just my opinion though.

Yes I would as well, plenty about but not many factory spec 

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A personal opinion is that ball and taper bearings are only suited for friction reduction, balls can run faster than taper as operating  friction lower.

Neither suitable for impact situations maybe?

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Took it by my mates tonight left it with him. He rang me up said he had chronod it and three shots it was 854 850 857, with RWS hobbys . its about 11.5 ft lbs  right where it needs to be.  Hobbys are 6.9 grain to 7 grain, I take it at that its Fine as it is.  Its over 40 years old still on stock spring, thats quite a shock if i am honest.  Its not even that hard to cock.

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