DUNKS Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just to confuse things the cannon balls used in canons onboard RN ships of the line were made of iron and actually weighed their description. i.e. a 28lb ball actually weighed 28lb goodness knows what the bore was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DUNKS said: Just to confuse things the cannon balls used in canons onboard RN ships of the line were made of iron and actually weighed their description. i.e. a 28lb ball actually weighed 28lb goodness knows what the bore was. I dont know how ordanance names are brought about. But 28pounder might not be a ball of lead rolled down the bore, reason i say this. Is when we were kids 1960s we had on our fireplace here the case of a 17pounder. "that is what i was told it was" Was used as a holder for the fire poker and rake. Had about 4lb of lead melted in the bottom, help keep it stable. . Think it was tank / or some field gun. I used to ask my dad if they were rare he said back then "common as muck", I certainly remember seeing plenty in homes doing the same job at that time. , That case mouth had a bore size about 3 inch at a guess. so could be the 28 pounders are smaller than you would think say 6 inch bores. But i am just guessing as i said originally. Edited May 17, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DUNKS said: Just to confuse things the cannon balls used in canons onboard RN ships of the line were made of iron and actually weighed their description. i.e. a 28lb ball actually weighed 28lb goodness knows what the bore was. The diameter of the ball would have been 5.843" To allow for 'windage' - casting and boring irregularities - the bore - which was reduced over the years as manufacturing technology improved - until finally ending up as 6.015". All figures are as per calculated but still ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, wymberley said: The diameter of the ball would have been 5.843" To allow for 'windage' - casting and boring irregularities - the bore - which was reduced over the years as manufacturing technology improved - until finally ending up as 6.015". All figures are as per calculated but still ish. Thank you very much. Just reading the Patrick O Brian books for the third time. Ship Aubrey is on at present uses one and a half hundred weight of black powder for a broadside. Edited May 17, 2020 by DUNKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Old farrier said: The number of balls of lead that weigh 1lb 4.10 doesn’t fit into the bore measure system I think the conventional bore for the .410 is 36 Gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Continental Shooter said: I think the conventional bore for the .410 is 36 Gauge I think you’re wrong 4.10 is a measurement not a bore size of the system used on all the other guns along with 9 mm and .22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Old farrier said: I think you’re wrong 4.10 is a measurement not a bore size of the system used on all the other guns along with 9 mm and .22 Yep, correct, it would be 67(.62). A 36 bore is .506" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Continental Shooter said: I think the conventional bore for the .410 is 36 Gauge No. The Americans sometimes refer to it as a 36 gauge and some “shells” are labelled as such. 36 gauge is as much “American English” as “shells”. In Europe, mostly France, the .410 is known as a 12mm, despite the fact that the bore is 10,4mm. The outer diameter of the cartridge is 12mm. Edited May 17, 2020 by London Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Fair enough, always known it as 36g myself do, assumed that was the end of the scale so to speak Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, London Best said: No. The Americans sometimes refer to it as a 36 gauge and some “shells” are labelled as such. 36 gauge is as much “American English” as “shells”. In Europe, mostly France, the .410 is known as a 12mm, despite the fact that the bore is 10,4mm. The outer diameter of the cartridge is 12mm. Americans 🙄 Sorry we’re English out of Europe and the colonial measures aren’t working 🤭 shells are found on the beach and it’s been known for years that the French only know about wine and cheese 🤔 for heavens sake next you’ll be advocating barrels on top of each other or some other work of the devil 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Americans 🙄 Sorry we’re English out of Europe and the colonial measures aren’t working 🤭 shells are found on the beach and it’s been known for years that the French only know about wine and cheese 🤔 for heavens sake next you’ll be advocating barrels on top of each other or some other work of the devil 😂 You’ve got me sussed, then? Actually, I love the Americans. but.......... It really annoys me when told to keep 2 metres apart. The bloody BBC even tries to tell us that somewhere in the U.K. is so many kilometres from somewhere else. NO it isn’t! And, as you probably realise, I am highly unlikely to ever have any barrels on top of each other. Unless it’s a Mackay Brown of course ! Or maybe a nice Woodward, or a Boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, London Best said: You’ve got me sussed, then? Actually, I love the Americans. but.......... It really annoys me when told to keep 2 metres apart. The bloody BBC even tries to tell us that somewhere in the U.K. is so many kilometres from somewhere else. NO it isn’t! And, as you probably realise, I am highly unlikely to ever have any barrels on top of each other. Unless it’s a Mackay Brown of course ! Or maybe a nice Woodward, or a Boss. 👍😊 definitely a Woodward 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 I once loaded for a gentleman with a pair of Mackay Browns and became an immediate fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, London Best said: No. The Americans sometimes refer to it as a 36 gauge and some “shells” are labelled as such. 36 gauge is as much “American English” as “shells”. In Europe, mostly France, the .410 is known as a 12mm, despite the fact that the bore is 10,4mm. The outer diameter of the cartridge is 12mm. This is right. In the states 36ga. I think if you look on the v.410 resource page it explains this some where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Interesting thread - everyone saying the same thing differently. The way I explain bores/gauges to make it easy to follow are that: To call a cannon a 1 pounder means that the shot it fires weighs 1 pound. Thus you can see why we call a gun a “twel(fth) bore” as that barrel fires a ball (of lead) that weighs 1/12th of a pound. To call a gun a “twenty bore” again means that a spherical lead shot cast to fit that barrel weighs 1/20th of a pound. As we move over to steel some of the bore sizes are going to need new names 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 11 hours ago, WalkedUp said: Interesting thread - everyone saying the same thing differently. The way I explain bores/gauges to make it easy to follow are that: To call a cannon a 1 pounder means that the shot it fires weighs 1 pound. Thus you can see why we call a gun a “twel(fth) bore” as that barrel fires a ball (of lead) that weighs 1/12th of a pound. To call a gun a “twenty bore” again means that a spherical lead shot cast to fit that barrel weighs 1/20th of a pound. As we move over to steel some of the bore sizes are going to need new names 🤣 The mind boggles. We have options: As the existing system would no longer apply we could: For example - all 12 and 20 bore respectively 1. Use traditional English weapon names - Excaliber and Longbow, 2. Use the same bore codes but revise the dimensions to suit - 0.835" and 0.708", 3. Keep the same bore dimensions but revise bore codes - 18.5 and 31.5, 4. As 2. and 3. would be confusing and we have to go up shot sizes, change from the even numbers to odd but go up just the one which has three advantages of avoiding any confusion, room for more pellets and revitalises the UK gun industry: A. 11 bore - 0.866" B. 19 bore - 0.718" 5. Do the usual UK preferred option - Nothing 6. Continue to use lead shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 Some of us have every intention of using lead shot until the law tells us not to. And this from a BASC member of 53 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 11 hours ago, WalkedUp said: As we move over to steel some of the bore sizes are going to need new names 🤣 I know we can call them ................scrap! 3 minutes ago, London Best said: Some of us have every intention of using lead shot until the law tells us not to. This +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: I know we can call them ................scrap! This +1 I think that now makes 4 of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 I don’t consider the guns are going to be scrap, but as for wildfowl I will use non toxic shot because I am forced to do so. There will be no “phased transition” here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 You people are superstars you really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, lancer425 said: You people are superstars you really are. Why do you say that? I am only telling you as I see it from my point of view. I have used non toxic for wildfowl for 22 years, steel in the 2 3/4 chambers and bismuth in the 2 1/2 chambers. Lead for everything else. When the law says no lead I will comply. I joined BASC (WAGBI) in 1967 but they are not authorised to tell me what to do or when to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perazzishot Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Having switched to 18.4 bore to use fibre last season the difference is notable from my previous 18.7 bore using fibre! Using plastic on clays I would say you have almost gone up a choke size the pattern is that much tighter! As for lead I'll not be entering into any volountry agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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