Smiler23 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 This is a question to those who are clued up on ballistics, IV just been in loading room looking at things and I weighed out a few things.i know these are not the same pellet size but it's what I have to hand. Powershot /hw13 in #1 weighs 0.017 each pellet ,with 58 to the Oz Steel #BBB weighs 0.016 each pellet with 63 to oz Obviously powershot has slight edge in pellet density,but for the cost difference is it worth it? How can that slight difference in weight give much advantage over the steel? I can see the point in tss18 but not the powershot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: This is a question to those who are clued up on ballistics, IV just been in loading room looking at things and I weighed out a few things.i know these are not the same pellet size but it's what I have to hand. Powershot /hw13 in #1 weighs 0.017 each pellet ,with 58 to the Oz Steel #BBB weighs 0.016 each pellet with 63 to oz Obviously powershot has slight edge in pellet density,but for the cost difference is it worth it? How can that slight difference in weight give much advantage over the steel? I can see the point in tss18 but not the powershot HW/ TSS is great , but you pay for it. Not being too brutal about it if you are not running a small bore gun, or some other reason, it could be a person just has no need of the HW/Tss density. It is simply down to what your doing what your doing it with and what you want to achieve. Add to this how deep your pockets are. At Typical What i would term hunting ranges a 10ga load of say 42/ 46 gram of BBB "4.83MM" steel through a decent choke will do most things expected of a goose shooting magnum at ranges most people will be pleased with. If you want to go for TSS you are goiing to have to do a lot of spacing out in the ten, but in say a 20ga, you can get improved performance with minimal spacing and faffing around. Ditto .410 &28ga etc. but even when you get to 16ga you got 15/16 oz of steel and Ok a Ts or Hw13 load will be better its again at a price. I can see a reason for a 12ga load of Hw13/ HW15 having a place to get your 12 into the longer range geese, And i do load HW15 for just that reason. but i Think everything taken in to account, and if i had use of guns i have now IE a couple of tens, i personally feel its not that practical a use of my money . And i will and do get by with steel . As i pointed out initially. I think if your not i die hard small bore shooter or want some other specialist load for a specific reason, The heavyweight options are a bit extravagant. But that’s my own finances and requirements, others may have other needs in mind. With HW and TSS you got other options too remember, Mixing with steel, can improve pellet count in some loads like lighter or small bore long range duck loads. It again depends on what you want to do. But as in this load here 1/4 oz of TSS is not free but better than filling the wad with TSS put it that way and might get what you want for your specialist need. Just an idea. Edited May 23, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 The majority of us up here shoot 42gms of BBB in our 10 bores and believe me it is very effective at up to 60 yds and using full choke. No need to use anything else in 10 bore in my opinion. I use ITM only in the 8 bore and then in 1 or BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Hw12+ is a little overkill. Brings back the small bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Smiler23 said: This is a question to those who are clued up on ballistics, IV just been in loading room looking at things and I weighed out a few things.i know these are not the same pellet size but it's what I have to hand. Powershot /hw13 in #1 weighs 0.017 each pellet ,with 58 to the Oz Steel #BBB weighs 0.016 each pellet with 63 to oz Obviously powershot has slight edge in pellet density,but for the cost difference is it worth it? How can that slight difference in weight give much advantage over the steel? I can see the point in tss18 but not the powershot The thing you have to remember, and why hw13 will be far more lethal than BBB steel, is because it is far smaller. It will therefore suffer less from wind resistance, and when it hits the bird, penetrate further. I have shot geese with hw13 2s at ranges I should not mention, but steel is also very capable. I use both when the geese are in, choosing what to use for specific situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 To get hw13 near like for like in density to steel , IV had to get #1 in hw13 and #bbb in steel.. so it's not massive difference in size.. not like tss18 would be ( not sure what # size would be in comparison to #bbb steel). How much further / better killing range does the slightly smaller but slightly heavier hw13 #1 pellet offer over the steel???? The price to me doesn't justify the slight increase it may offer, tss15 or tss18 I get, as your getting much smaller/ denser pellet to outperform steel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: To get hw13 near like for like in density to steel , IV had to get #1 in hw13 and #bbb in steel.. so it's not massive difference in size.. not like tss18 would be ( not sure what # size would be in comparison to #bbb steel). How much further / better killing range does the slightly smaller but slightly heavier hw13 #1 pellet offer over the steel???? The price to me doesn't justify the slight increase it may offer, tss15 or tss18 I get, as your getting much smaller/ denser pellet to outperform steel.. Bit if KPY data here might help you decide. https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/range-comparison-steel-itx-hw13-tss/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Thanks for that lancer, I bought the powershot cheap ,only reason I have it.... It's not something I'd buy at the full price....I'll stick to #bbb steel. I may give the tss a try out as I can see that giving a huge advantage over steel, and save it for the days when steel won't cut the mustard.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 that powershot is great stuff, sensible speeds, easy shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 At the minute I shoot #bbb through bps 10 bore with terror choke in, but if the tss18 offers a greater/ more leathul combination I don't mind buying a small bore gun to run some through.,.looking at some of the results/ testing that's been done with the stuff.....a 1oz load of #6 tss18 should be out performing a 4 bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) If I'm right in what I'm thinking a tss #7 pellet weighs slightly more than a lead #AAA pellet with 185 to ounce, where aaa is 37 Edited May 24, 2020 by Smiler23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) Lead Shot Lead #2: 89/oz Lead #4: 136/oz Lead #5: 173/oz Lead #6: 222/oz Lead #7: 295/oz12g/cc Shot (Hevi-Shot, Hevi-13, Win XRHD, Rem HD) 12g/cc #2: 81/oz 12g/cc #4: 125/oz 12g/cc #5: 159/oz 12g/cc #6: 209/oz 12g/cc #7: 278/oz13g/cc Shot (ITX Extreme Turkey Trauma-13, Nitros Megaweight) 13g/cc #2: 75/oz 13g/cc #4: 115/oz 13g/cc #5: 147/oz 13g/cc #6: 193/oz 13g/cc #7: 256/oz 13g/cc #8: 352/oz15g/cc Shot (Federal Heavyweight, Tungsten Spheres) 15g/cc #2: 65/oz 15g/cc #4: 100/oz 15g/cc #5: 127/oz 15g/cc #6: 165/oz 15g/cc #7: 219/oz 15g/cc #8: 301/oz18g/cc Shot (TSS) TSS #2: 54/oz TSS #4: 83/oz TSS #5: 106/oz TSS #6: 139/oz TSS #7: 185/oz TSS #8: 254/oz TSS #9: 362/oz Edited May 24, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Remember density is just one aspect of a shot type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Ok, so a 1oz load of tss18 #7 has similar shot count and pellet density to a 4oz load of #AAA lead.... obviously the lead would leave a bigger wound pattern ,but the tss should pattern much better therefore giving multiple strikes... So a .410 1oz load of tss out performs a 4oz load from a 4 bore, on pattern and pellet density.... Just not on £££££????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) That's a rubbish pattern that they guy has shot. Yes it may be 162 in his circle but it isn't at all a well distributed pattern. Very poor. Two kiddies' football sized voids in it at 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock. And the quarry riddled like a colander in what isn't a very good centre circle pattern either. The man needs to sort his choke out as, unless that's just how this type of shot performs, it isn't allowing his cartridges to show at their best IMHO. Edited May 24, 2020 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Yes,agree with that ,not a very even pattern,seems to be very top heavy... On the American sites there patterns with tss and small bore guns with tight chokes are unreal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Most of the good TSS patterns will be Indian creek Black diamond strike created. He used a Patternmaster "I would not have used such a choke tube" That same load through indian creek BDS could well be very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Smiler23 said: Ok, so a 1oz load of tss18 #7 has similar shot count and pellet density to a 4oz load of #AAA lead.... obviously the lead would leave a bigger wound pattern ,but the tss should pattern much better therefore giving multiple strikes... So a .410 1oz load of tss out performs a 4oz load from a 4 bore, on pattern and pellet density.... Just not on £££££????? Getting the .410x 1 oz of 7 tss to pattern like a 4 on AAA at 80 yards would be interesting. Theoretical yes. but practical ? Less so. Big pellets hold patterns better"follow on" at range . Bigger bores help with pattern too. its the 3.5 inch 12vs the 10ga 3.5. looks good on the numbers but generaly less inspirational on the pattern plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Can the tss be fired in old fixed choked guns? Or is steel proofed only?with it being much smaller shot can you still get the issues of bulging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: Can the tss be fired in old fixed choked guns? Or is steel proofed only?with it being much smaller shot can you still get the issues of bulging? In a typical steel type wad employed with TSS and the fact its density will reduce pressures. In a typical magnum shotgun i think it should be safe as any load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, Smiler23 said: Can the tss be fired in old fixed choked guns? Or is steel proofed only?with it being much smaller shot can you still get the issues of bulging? Admittedly only 9 TSS cartridges which all killed Geese fired from my Aya No3 Magnum 1/4 an 1/2 chokes just my opinion safe and know damage to gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 hours ago, enfieldspares said: That's a rubbish pattern that they guy has shot. Yes it may be 162 in his circle but it isn't at all a well distributed pattern. Very poor. Two kiddies' football sized voids in it at 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock. And the quarry riddled like a colander in what isn't a very good centre circle pattern either. The man needs to sort his choke out as, unless that's just how this type of shot performs, it isn't allowing his cartridges to show at their best IMHO. The problem with drawing the target/pattern centre before taking the shot. With that pellet count there should be between 3 and 6 vacant 5" circles in the 30" circle. Always think it's a shame that speaking/writng in English on a UK forum for UK shooters that we can't use English lead shot sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, wymberley said: The problem with drawing the target/pattern centre before taking the shot. With that pellet count there should be between 3 and 6 vacant 5" circles in the 30" circle. Always think it's a shame that speaking/writng in English on a UK forum for UK shooters that we can't use English lead shot sizes. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Looking at the pattern on that pic,is it a duplexed load? Some of the holes look different sizes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Smiler23 said: Looking at the pattern on that pic,is it a duplexed load? Some of the holes look different sizes It is in the video from Apex i think, he said on the video he was using a pattermaster , can not expect much more from such a choke at 40 yards. Tss with indian creek tube , i have not even watched the video. i am that confident it will be an improvement. Just posted the link here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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