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Demonstrations in london


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1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I agree, but this should be on the Brexit thread.

I'll take the agreement here, have you seen the Brexit thread recently? Some have properly taken leave of their senses...

I would take some convincing that the BLM mob have those as their aims. Worthy causes, but they are in it for the buzz of demonstrations. There might be one or two genuine protesters, but their overall conduct suggests that it is just a few.

I agree on the mob aspect but that applies to both sides, surely. I have no idea on the ratio of legit BLM protesters vs. BLM rent a mob nor, on the other side, legit Vets vs. the various mobs associated with football firms and EDL types. I stand by my original point if I was "forced" to pick a side.

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9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

29573594-8417925-image-m-68_159209125786

Kinda surprised nobody had yet brought this up.

I suspect this isn't exactly what Rewulf had in mind when he was talking about autonomous zones in London but just out of the picture a Met Police Officer stands by filming the incident with a camera mounted on a glorified "selfie stick". You couldn't make it up really...

That guy came across well in his statement. That he acted out of compassion. His pal was an idiot though, effectively saying he didn’t care what happened to the white man but if a black boy stabbed him and went to jail they would have felt bad they hadn’t prevented it. Sickening logic but I think he’s post rationalising. The simple fact is in the heat of battle the big bloke showed great compassion for a fellow human, regardless of skin colour. That is what any decent human would do. But he showed great bravery and physical strength to do so. Compare and contrast to the EDL scum who attacked some young girls sat having a picnic. 

My friend who I previously disagreed with sent me this link, that he completely agrees with. Seems like we are on the same page. I’m slightly deaf from gunfire so it is hard to follow what the man is saying as he talks too fast and has weird eyes:

 

 

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31 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

That guy came across well in his statement. That he acted out of compassion. His pal was an idiot though, effectively saying he didn’t care what happened to the white man but if a black boy stabbed him and went to jail they would have felt bad they hadn’t prevented it. Sickening logic but I think he’s post rationalising. The simple fact is in the heat of battle the big bloke showed great compassion for a fellow human, regardless of skin colour. That is what any decent human would do. But he showed great bravery and physical strength to do so. Compare and contrast to the EDL scum who attacked some young girls sat having a picnic. 

My friend who I previously disagreed with sent me this link, that he completely agrees with. Seems like we are on the same page. I’m slightly deaf from gunfire so it is hard to follow what the man is saying as he talks too fast and has weird eyes:

 

 

I agree except:

I don’t wear Jordan’s nor do I watch porn whilst sitting on the toilet 😂

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11 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Nicely written, though I suspect Bumble would have something to say about the paragraphing.

Since nobody has challenged this, I will. This is wrong on the statement highlighted and then you go on to politicise the whole thing. I mean, why stop there, may as well throw some religion in for good measure too.

People on this thread have cited racist behaviour against them, at least one claims to have been subjected (I'll avoid the word victim) to a racial assault.

That aside, if I told you I have traveled the world extensively but never seen a polar bear in the wild, therefore I assert they do not exist - then what would you think of that?

A polar bear is a good example, they exist, but they are rare and they are almost unheard of in the UK.

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50 minutes ago, Robden said:
I don't understand all this racism stuff. Surely "Black lives matter" is racist in itself?!?? 
What about the yellow lives and white lives?
Shouldn't it be "ALL lives matter??"

It should.

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1 hour ago, Mice! said:

It should.

You are right - but for some reason I really cannot comprehend, saying "ALL" rather than "Black" is considered racist and offensive/insulting to some BLM supporters.

It apparently reinforces the feeling that racism doesn't exist - which I find illogical and certainly in the way most people think incorrect.

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8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

You are right - but for some reason I really cannot comprehend, saying "ALL" rather than "Black" is considered racist and offensive/insulting to some BLM supporters.

It apparently reinforces the feeling that racism doesn't exist - which I find illogical and certainly in the way most people think incorrect.

It's complex, but as far as I can tell people with this view are towards the extreme end of all this and a bit-closed minded on the matter.

I had advocated ALM, without even knowing it was a "thing", since to me the logical way to get rid of racial discrimination is to reject the notion that black, white and everything in between are different".

The retort I got was that it's incorrect to say ALM when black people are being discriminated against, so they agree in the end goal but want recognition that it is not the case today. I guess the logic is that once BLM actually matter then it necessarily follows that indeed, ALM.

There is also this analogy, which I suspect will appeal to some and not to others.

 

 

 

Edited by Raja Clavata
typos due to mult-tasking...
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16 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It's complex, but as far as I can tell people with this view are towards the extreme end of all this and a bit-closed minded on the matter.

I had advocated ALM, without even knowing it was a "thing", since to me the logical way to get rid of racial discrimination is to reject the notion that black, white and everything in between are different".

The retort I got was that it's incorrect to say ALM when black people are being discriminated against, so they agree in the end goal but want recognition that it is not the case today. I guess the logic is that once BLM actually matter then it necessarily follows that indeed, ALM.

There is also this analogy, which I suspect will appeal to some and not to others.

 

 

 

So are they putting water on the BLM issue while ignoring the others? Or are they letting .......

I thought people were saying a while back that anyone working at a local car wash was likely in modern slavery? But their white ish and probably eastern European, same with nail shops?? There weren't any demos or rioting about this.

Honestly it's not a great one for me, seems more like the fire is being fanned not put out.

I've seen several clips on Facebook lately showing black American police acting violently towards white people, no doubt being posted because of what's currently happening,  not sure if any of this has been on the main news channels or when they happened. 

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6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Honestly it's not a great one for me, seems more like the fire is being fanned not put out.

+1

Its a classic case of fitting a dodgy analogy to the scenario.
In reality , the house burning down is already lost, the surrounding houses are not, so need damping down, but I digress.
Ive seen other , equally bad analogies, but its really quite simple , and Ill say it again , you dont get your issue of racism and discrimination across , by using racism and discrimination, in a more violent form than what is being directed at you.

Image may contain: one or more people, people standing, shoes and outdoor

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6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Its a classic case of fitting a dodgy analogy to the scenario.
In reality , the house burning down is already lost

I'd say you obviously spray the house on fire, the problem is people are lighting fires were there weren't any.

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44 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It's complex, but as far as I can tell people with this view are towards the extreme end of all this and a bit-closed minded on the matter.

I had advocated ALM, without even knowing it was a "thing", since to me the logical way to get rid of racial discrimination is to reject the notion that black, white and everything in between are different".

The retort I got was that it's incorrect to say ALM when black people are being discriminated against, so they agree in the end goal but want recognition that it is not the case today. I guess the logic is that once BLM actually matter then it necessarily follows that indeed, ALM.

There is also this analogy, which I suspect will appeal to some and not to others.

 

 

 

But that would mean people are routinely being killed by the state simply based on their colour. I don't know much about the usa, but I'm absolutely positive it's not happening in the UK. Which then leads to the question, what are they actually protesting about in London and the rest of the UK?

Even if it is happening in America and they're protesting on their behalf, why aren't they out protesting that Chinese lives matter, Syrian lives matter, or north Korean lives matter ect?

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52 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It's complex, but as far as I can tell people with this view are towards the extreme end of all this and a bit-closed minded on the matter.

I disagree. 

It isn't "complex".  It is about the English language - ALL is the inclusive term and is understood by everyone to mean everyone; not all who show 'symptoms', or have a visible difference.  The lives of people who have a non visible 'difference' also matter; they might (for example) be suicidal which is very high priority ..........

Thse pople are simply making a case for 'positive discrimination' and that is unacceptable.

ALL lives is inclusive and non discriminatory.  Black lives is discrimintory - and that is what we are trying to avoid!

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28 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

+1

Its a classic case of fitting a dodgy analogy to the scenario.
In reality , the house burning down is already lost, the surrounding houses are not, so need damping down, but I digress.
Ive seen other , equally bad analogies, but its really quite simple , and Ill say it again , you dont get your issue of racism and discrimination across , by using racism and discrimination, in a more violent form than what is being directed at you.

Image may contain: one or more people, people standing, shoes and outdoor

You claim it's a dodgy analogy and then go on to cite reality, interesting.

Few analogies are a perfect fit but they are well documented as an, albeit imperfect, approach to addressing complex issues. Naturally if you deny the issue even exists then there is little perceived value, either directly or indirectly, in using an analogy to share different perspectives around the issue.

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11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I disagree. 

It isn't "complex".  It is about the English language - ALL is the inclusive term and is understood by everyone to mean everyone; not all who show 'symptoms', or have a visible difference.  The lives of people who have a non visible 'difference' also matter; they might (for example) be suicidal which is very high priority ..........

Thse pople are simply making a case for 'positive discrimination' and that is unacceptable.

ALL lives is inclusive and non discriminatory.  Black lives is discrimintory - and that is what we are trying to avoid!

Taken in isolation I'd agree with everything you said. As I already said, ALM would be my default mantra but I've tried to put myself in the shoes of people who appear different to me and tell me they are not treated in a way that demonstrates that all lives matter today. I don't fully get it but since they are decent people am minded to accept a degree of logic in their reasoning.

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27 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Even if it is happening in America and they're protesting on their behalf, why aren't they out protesting that Chinese lives matter, Syrian lives matter, or north Korean lives matter ect?

Indeed , but its not just happening here , theres protest worldwide.

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Naturally if you deny the issue even exists then there is little perceived value

Literally no one is denying there is a problem, but there are no 'fires' until the media lights them.

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3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Taken in isolation I'd agree with everything you said. As I already said, ALM would be my default mantra but I've tried to put myself in the shoes of people who appear different to me and tell me they are not treated in a way that demonstrates that all lives matter today. I don't fully get it but since they are decent people am minded to accept a degree of logic in their reasoning.

I appreciate both your position and explanation, but you (and they) are making it complex to suit their own ends - whereas it is actually very simple.  I can only say, don't put yourself in other peoples shoes - they won't fit!

I agree that to some people, like the EDL thugs, a small minority of the UK police etc. and probably rather more in the USA, they don't treat all equally; but that doesn't mean the idea that ALL lives matter is wrong.  I am supporting ALL lives matter in the strict English language interpretation - in which Black lives, and other minority groups lives are simply a subset of the inclusive "ALL".

To me, it is right that ALL lives matter - and wrong to put only the subset 'black'.  Using that rationale, it implies that other subsets don't matter as much - which is not the case.

For that reason I am firmly sticking with ALL lives matter and having no part the potentially discriminatory (even if 'positive' discriminatory) subset of 'black lives matter'.

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1 hour ago, Mice! said:

 

I've seen several clips on Facebook lately showing black American police acting violently towards white people, no doubt being posted because of what's currently happening,  not sure if any of this has been on the main news channels or when they happened. 

it’s been on but nobody wants to mention it watched a 75yr old man on sky prog last night smashed backwards to the ground by the police left unconscious blood pouring from his head as the bullies with badges stepped over him prime example this has been caused by the police 

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27 minutes ago, clangerman said:

it’s been on but nobody wants to mention it watched a 75yr old man on sky prog last night smashed backwards to the ground by the police left unconscious blood pouring from his head as the bullies with badges stepped over him prime example this has been caused by the police 

I assume the clip you are referring to is the one in the US. Hardly ‘smashed’ backwards. He was refusing to move so they gave him a gentle nudge and he stumbled backwards. It was an unfortunate accident. I don’t know why the left him. Perhaps it’s the role of the cops behind the front line to ‘mop up’? 

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2 minutes ago, AVB said:

I assume the clip you are referring to is the one in the US. Hardly ‘smashed’ backwards. He was refusing to move so they gave him a gentle nudge and he stumbled backwards. It was an unfortunate accident. I don’t know why the left him. Perhaps it’s the role of the cops behind the front line to ‘mop up’? 

This one?

UJUMKGPMQP4KMDL52RNHIPE63Q.jpg

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The problem with the statement ‘Black Lives Matter’ is that it interpreted differently depending on your circumstances. The same with the (stupid) ‘house on fire’ analogy. You are a poor white family, living in the breadline, perhaps lost job due to CV-19. To them their ‘house is on Fire’ and they interpret it that black lives/‘houses’ are more important than theirs. 
 

it fuels more racism rather than reduces it. 

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

This one?

UJUMKGPMQP4KMDL52RNHIPE63Q.jpg

That’s the one I was referring to. He is a renowned activist/antagonist. Unfortunate that he got injured but I see it as an accident. Others will see it differently. And I don’t see what it has got to do with London. 

Edited by AVB
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3 minutes ago, AVB said:

That’s the one I was referring to. He is a renowned activist/antagonist. Unfortunate that he got injured but I see it as an accident. Others will see it differently. And I don’t see what it has got to do with London. 

Absolutely nothing!

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8 minutes ago, AVB said:

I assume the clip you are referring to is the one in the US. Hardly ‘smashed’ backwards. He was refusing to move so they gave him a gentle nudge and he stumbled backwards. It was an unfortunate accident. I don’t know why the left him. Perhaps it’s the role of the cops behind the front line to ‘mop up’? 

how in any way shape or form is shoving a old age pensioner to the ground a accident what sort of sicko leaves someone old unconscious and bleeding on the floor no wonder we have riots 

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26 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I appreciate both your position and explanation, but you (and they) are making it complex to suit their own ends - whereas it is actually very simple.  I can only say, don't put yourself in other peoples shoes - they won't fit!

I agree that to some people, like the EDL thugs, a small minority of the UK police etc. and probably rather more in the USA, they don't treat all equally; but that doesn't mean the idea that ALL lives matter is wrong.  I am supporting ALL lives matter in the strict English language interpretation - in which Black lives, and other minority groups lives are simply a subset of the inclusive "ALL".

To me, it is right that ALL lives matter - and wrong to put only the subset 'black'.  Using that rationale, it implies that other subsets don't matter as much - which is not the case.

For that reason I am firmly sticking with ALL lives matter and having no part the potentially discriminatory (even if 'positive' discriminatory) subset of 'black lives matter'.

I've already said my default mantra would be ALM. I don't believe anyone is truly against the notion that all lives matter, logically they can't be, their point is that ALM is a falsehood until black lives matter as much as white ones - which is the basis of their grievance. Maybe it would be less emotive if it didn't refer to lives, I dunno...

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