Bleepin Council

[discobob]

Some may have read my rants about the work done outside our house by the Council recently.

They have converted our un-adopted single track lane into a Cycle Path/Safer routes to schools and it has been historically a public footpath. This has involve putting in curbstones, tarmaccing and street lighting.  I wrote to them when they were in the planning stage and told them that they need to incorporate passive traffic calming into their design as were already suffering from vehicles (a lot being couriers) doing 40/50 up the lane and that when they resurface this will only increase the speed that vehicles go up and down on it. Well - they done jack about it and guess what - the speed has increased. Don't get me wrong - it isn't a constant stream as the road is a dead end - or is since they put bollards at the top a week or so ago

Well, today, there was a woman at the front of the house, and started speaking to my wife and our neighbor - saying that she was responsible for getting the money for it to be done. I think she had come round to have her self esteem preened - well I preened something else especially when she answered a couple of questions

1. We were told that they were going to do the verges in meadow grass - as all along there was grass before the work (maintained by my neighbour and occasionally me but is now rapidly becoming a weed infestation full of rubble and it would be impossible to mow because of it) - Response - er there is no money put aside to do that and you will have to speak to rights of way

2. We were informed that the lane was going to be marked accordingly - Response - Well it is OK as it is - doesn't need it

I heard my wife and neighbour just accept this and start doffing the cap to this woman saying how fantastic they (the council) were.

Well, at that point I got started (out of my WFH office window) - I asked if the lane could be renamed - to "Brands Hatch" because of the speed of vehicles going up the lane and the danger to people and children. Some of her responses are below.

1. Well, I can't see any speeding (she had only been there a couple of minutes)

2. Well you do live on a quiet lane - as if we should just put up with it.

3. Well, what do you want - speed humps? To which I pointed out how stupid it was to have spent so much money to then go breaking up the surface to put in humps of any description (even the plastic ones have to be bolted in) and to replace potholes with speed humps is a Hobson's choice

Perhaps I was flogging a dead horse a little bit but I wanted to hold them to account for the complete disregard they had shown and all the promises that were given but have since turned out to be false - In the end the woman got all emotional (not crying)  about it, uttering things like damned if we do and damned if we don't...then stormed off.

 

Anyway - I am in the doghouse now with my wife over this - I'm getting the silent treatment which is a nice little treat for me

 

 

 

[kernel gadaffi]

Get in touch with the press, mention her conversation and if you still have it, a copy of the letter you sent, make them look like the t*ats they are.

[discobob]

16 minutes ago, kernel gadaffi said:

Get in touch with the press, mention her conversation and if you still have it, a copy of the letter you sent, make them look like the t*ats they are.

That is one thing that I am considering - Although I would end up in the kennel outside if I appeared in the local rag - The shame of it!! 🤣

[DoolinDalton]

For speeding issues, just contact your local police station and mention it.  They should get someone in the traffic department to contact you and will hopefully send a couple of bike cops with speed guns around.  You can also google something called Community Speedwatch.  Hope you get it sorted.

[Lord v]

5 hours ago, discobob said:

Some may have read my rants about the work done outside our house by the Council recently.

They have converted our un-adopted single track lane into a Cycle Path/Safer routes to schools and it has been historically a public footpath. This has involve putting in curbstones, tarmaccing and street lighting.  I wrote to them when they were in the planning stage and told them that they need to incorporate passive traffic calming into their design as were already suffering from vehicles (a lot being couriers) doing 40/50 up the lane and that when they resurface this will only increase the speed that vehicles go up and down on it. Well - they done jack about it and guess what - the speed has increased. Don't get me wrong - it isn't a constant stream as the road is a dead end - or is since they put bollards at the top a week or so ago

Well, today, there was a woman at the front of the house, and started speaking to my wife and our neighbor - saying that she was responsible for getting the money for it to be done. I think she had come round to have her self esteem preened - well I preened something else especially when she answered a couple of questions

1. We were told that they were going to do the verges in meadow grass - as all along there was grass before the work (maintained by my neighbour and occasionally me but is now rapidly becoming a weed infestation full of rubble and it would be impossible to mow because of it) - Response - er there is no money put aside to do that and you will have to speak to rights of way

2. We were informed that the lane was going to be marked accordingly - Response - Well it is OK as it is - doesn't need it

I heard my wife and neighbour just accept this and start doffing the cap to this woman saying how fantastic they (the council) were.

Well, at that point I got started (out of my WFH office window) - I asked if the lane could be renamed - to "Brands Hatch" because of the speed of vehicles going up the lane and the danger to people and children. Some of her responses are below.

1. Well, I can't see any speeding (she had only been there a couple of minutes)

2. Well you do live on a quiet lane - as if we should just put up with it.

3. Well, what do you want - speed humps? To which I pointed out how stupid it was to have spent so much money to then go breaking up the surface to put in humps of any description (even the plastic ones have to be bolted in) and to replace potholes with speed humps is a Hobson's choice

Perhaps I was flogging a dead horse a little bit but I wanted to hold them to account for the complete disregard they had shown and all the promises that were given but have since turned out to be false - In the end the woman got all emotional (not crying)  about it, uttering things like damned if we do and damned if we don't...then stormed off.

 

Anyway - I am in the doghouse now with my wife over this - I'm getting the silent treatment which is a nice little treat for me

 

 

 

If the work was done by the local authority (and even if it wasn't) there should be something called an RSA and/or NMU audit. (Road Safety Audit / Non Motorised User audit) 

I would write to the council highways dept and request it....

Depends on how worked up you are but if you can get hold of the original street works drawings you could commission your own stage 1/2 audit (would be about £700 - £1k) or just a stage 1 (around £400)

Your local authority should also have somewhere (generally online) a residential highway design guide. There will undoubtedly have a section on passive speed control and the maximum lengths of straight road in a residential setting. Would be interesting to compare their guidence with what's been built. 

They are terrible at following their own guidelines, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Lord v

[daveboy]

Stand outside with a Hi-Viz jacket and a hairdryer.

[discobob]

4 hours ago, Lord v said:

If the work was done by the local authority (and even if it wasn't) there should be something called an RSA and/or NMU audit. (Road Safety Audit / Non Motorised User audit) 

I would write to the council highways dept and request it....

Depends on how worked up you are but if you can get hold of the original street works drawings you could commission your own stage 1/2 audit (would be about £700 - £1k) or just a stage 1 (around £400)

Your local authority should also have somewhere (generally online) a residential highway design guide. There will undoubtedly have a section on passive speed control and the maximum lengths of straight road in a residential setting. Would be interesting to compare their guidence with what's been built. 

They are terrible at following their own guidelines, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. 

That is invaluable information. The only downside is that they are classing it as a cycle way - perhaps to get round it? But this is something that I will chase up. 
 

the ironic thing is that this has been done under the “safer routes to school” funded by the Welsh Assembly
 

 

[Lord v]

Oh God you're in Wales.... Lovely country, very odd ideas about how to run it.

A cycleway would still very likely be part of the adopted network so it wouldn't let them skip by the requirement that easily. 

Although very technically the RSA process is only applicable to trunk roads and motorways it is applied by pretty much every LA to their own roads. After all it covers their **** if anything should go wrong and sets the 'gold standard' for the audit process so why reinvent the wheel.... (although... Wales.... Yeah) 

Generally LAs take some things to be exempt from an RSA/NMU audit, but it's mainly emergancy works and what would be classified minor works. It's highly unlikely they would take the conversion of a carriage way to a footway/cycleway that you will put vulnerable users on to be an exemption.... 

Local Authorities are.... Terrible at completing these audits but they should be done. There were some recent (2018) changes to the standard (GG119) on RSAs which mean thing are a bit tighter and there should be a comprehensive paper trail and not something shoved in a drawer. 

It would be horribly negligent if some sort of audit (even if it wasn't to the standard above) wasn't done under something like a safer routes scheme. There is generally a lot of work upfront on these kind of things on route selection and travel planning and I am sure safety will have been a primary consideration. 

(still bet you £50 they haven't done one) 

 

[discobob]

15 minutes ago, Lord v said:

Oh God you're in Wales.... Lovely country, very odd ideas about how to run it.

A cycleway would still very likely be part of the adopted network so it wouldn't let them skip by the requirement that easily. 

Although very technically the RSA process is only applicable to trunk roads and motorways it is applied by pretty much every LA to their own roads. After all it covers their **** if anything should go wrong and sets the 'gold standard' for the audit process so why reinvent the wheel.... (although... Wales.... Yeah) 

Generally LAs take some things to be exempt from an RSA/NMU audit, but it's mainly emergancy works and what would be classified minor works. It's highly unlikely they would take the conversion of a carriage way to a footway/cycleway that you will put vulnerable users on to be an exemption.... 

Local Authorities are.... Terrible at completing these audits but they should be done. There were some recent (2018) changes to the standard (GG119) on RSAs which mean thing are a bit tighter and there should be a comprehensive paper trail and not something shoved in a drawer. 

It would be horribly negligent if some sort of audit (even if it wasn't to the standard above) wasn't done under something like a safer routes scheme. There is generally a lot of work upfront on these kind of things on route selection and travel planning and I am sure safety will have been a primary consideration. 

(still bet you £50 they haven't done one) 

 

Yep - when we bought the house we was informed it was an unadapted road and the don’t know who owns it. After a couple of years - after two further houses had been built at the top at the top of the lane which totally destroyed the surface our builder had put down (and planning hadn’t put any conditions on them) I found out the owner was the council. If I had known that I wouldn’t have bought the house!! I hate dealing with them - especially the way they shrug responsibility and passing you between departments and making it so bloody hard to deal with them. 
 

After finding that out and putting them in a situation where they lied (again) to my face about they don’t know who owns it - I showed them the proof - then it was we do own it but as a private landlord. We even had a letter from their legal threatening us that if we done anything on the lane they would take legal action against us!!

[discobob]

On 02/06/2020 at 17:37, DoolinDalton said:

For speeding issues, just contact your local police station and mention it.  They should get someone in the traffic department to contact you and will hopefully send a couple of bike cops with speed guns around.  You can also google something called Community Speedwatch.  Hope you get it sorted.

On Friday, I saw a red car flash past our living room window - then about 20 minutes later I was loading up the car for a trip to the tip so I was yards from the lane itself - it flew past - I would say 70 miles an hour - so fast I couldn't get the number plate. It turned right at the top. So when I loaded my car up I drove up the lane to see which house it had gone to - only to see it was parked outside the house owned by a copper (different county) and his wife who is a retired copper...*** can you do!

[Lord v]

On 03/06/2020 at 00:16, discobob said:

Yep - when we bought the house we was informed it was an unadapted road and the don’t know who owns it. After a couple of years - after two further houses had been built at the top at the top of the lane which totally destroyed the surface our builder had put down (and planning hadn’t put any conditions on them) I found out the owner was the council. If I had known that I wouldn’t have bought the house!! I hate dealing with them - especially the way they shrug responsibility and passing you between departments and making it so bloody hard to deal with them. 
 

After finding that out and putting them in a situation where they lied (again) to my face about they don’t know who owns it - I showed them the proof - then it was we do own it but as a private landlord. We even had a letter from their legal threatening us that if we done anything on the lane they would take legal action against us!!

I have recently been embroiled in a legal battle with a local authority on a very similar issue. It frankly causes a complete nightmare. 

It would absolutely be worth contacting the highways department and requesting what's called a HMPE plan for your road. There maybe a small (£10 or so) charge for this. Then get the land registry's title plan for the same area (£3).

You will then at least have a good starting point.