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Colston enriched Bristol with his philanthropism, albeit that it was built upon slavery.

Black residents of Bristol have enjoyed the benefits of his generosity. It would seem to be rather hypocritical to try to heap guilt for slavery upon white people whilst black people still enjoy the financial benefits of Colstons gifts to the community.

If they seek to remove him from history should they not feel a moral obligation to set the record straight and make a token repayment for the benefits they have enjoyed at the expense of their forebearers. A few hundred quid from all the residents of Bristol, which would allow for inflation, who feel it neccessary to erase him should help set the moral record straight.

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39 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

Colston enriched Bristol with his philanthropism, albeit that it was built upon slavery.

Black residents of Bristol have enjoyed the benefits of his generosity. It would seem to be rather hypocritical to try to heap guilt for slavery upon white people whilst black people still enjoy the financial benefits of Colstons gifts to the community.

If they seek to remove him from history should they not feel a moral obligation to set the record straight and make a token repayment for the benefits they have enjoyed at the expense of their forebearers. A few hundred quid from all the residents of Bristol, which would allow for inflation, who feel it neccessary to erase him should help set the moral record straight.

?. It's surely more about the fact that we had a statue celebrating the life of a slave trader. It's presence against all of the moral values that we stand for as a country. It's nothing to do with the money he brought to the city. It's because those in power were doing nothing about removing it. It's presence was a token of the repression of anyone suffering discrimination. 

The intention is not to erase history. On the contrary it's about better education and understanding of the issues and the history so that we all understand the issues and the history. It's not just Bristol of course but the wealth of each and everyone of us that is built on global exploitation. 

None of that of course excuses the crime of criminal damage even if there are mitigating circumstances. 

 

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

Feel sorry for my neighbour named after him. 

Funnily enough Grant, I should declare an interest here, my father's family had a tradition of giving the eldest son the middle name Colston.  The origin of this has been lost to time, but the most likely explanation is that one of my ancestors was gifted a scholarship by him or his estate.  As I mentioned, it appears my ancestors were farm labourers in Somerset. Not slaves, in that they had their freedom, but not many rungs above it either.

The quandry of whether to continue this tradition is, fortunately, a moot point, as my eldest brother has no biological children (but does have a step-daughter).

 

37 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

Colston enriched Bristol with his philanthropism, albeit that it was built upon slavery.

An interesting point mentioned to me by a fellow dog walker in the park yesterday:  In many ways Colston is the lightening rod, as he did charitable works, and thus had things named for him.  A lot of his fellow slave traders did no such charitable works, kept the money for themselves, so are unknown.

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4 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's surely more about the fact that we had a statue celebrating the life of a slave trade benefactor.

I would argue the celebration is NOT about him having been a slave trader, but about having been a benefactor.

Being a slave trader in Colston's time was nothing out of the ordinary to the people of his time; nothing to celebrate, nothing to revile either. 

Providing civic amenities for Bristol was something to celebrate.  The statue was in recognition of that - not how he made (some) of his money

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

thus had things named for him.

Exactly - the recognition was for the civic and charity work

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As with so many peoples lives, much of Colstons was a shade of grey rather than being stark black or white.

One of the worst racists and warmongers of the 20th century was Winston Churchill. Yet he was the one man who could have kept the country together, especially during the early days of the war, at the end of which he emerged as one of the greatest anti slavery icons that has ever lived.

Do we desecrate his memory because he was a man of his time and did not fit in with current minority left wing opinion.

 

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The answer is simple: we only erect monuments and commemorate men (women) who are entirely without blemish on their character even when measured against the moral codes and social mores of 300 years from now. 

Edited by Lord v
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2 hours ago, mudpatten said:

As with so many peoples lives, much of Colstons was a shade of grey rather than being stark black or white.

One of the worst racists and warmongers of the 20th century was Winston Churchill. Yet he was the one man who could have kept the country together, especially during the early days of the war, at the end of which he emerged as one of the greatest anti slavery icons that has ever lived.

Do we desecrate his memory because he was a man of his time and did not fit in with current minority left wing opinion.

 

Give them chance, they'll get around to him😥😥😥

3 hours ago, oowee said:

?. It's surely more about the fact that we had a statue celebrating the life of a slave trader. It's presence against all of the moral values that we stand for as a country. It's nothing to do with the money he brought to the city. It's because those in power were doing nothing about removing it. It's presence was a token of the repression of anyone suffering discrimination. 

The intention is not to erase history. On the contrary it's about better education and understanding of the issues and the history so that we all understand the issues and the history. It's not just Bristol of course but the wealth of each and everyone of us that is built on global exploitation. 

None of that of course excuses the crime of criminal damage even if there are mitigating circumstances. 

 

Up until this week no one outside of Bristol had heard of the bloke, apparently Bristol had a vote and decided to keep the statue, I'd love to know how many people bothered to vote although it was probably just an online click.

If these statues are removed then they'll never be discussed. 

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5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Apparently the Council plan to recover the statue and put it in a museum!

There is a good museum near Temple Meads station that does cover Bristols slavery connection.

I see now a museum curator has been advising protesters the best ways to destroy statues https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8405899/Museum-curator-tweets-advice-destroy-bronze-statues-chemicals-BLM-protests.html

 

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4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is a good museum near Temple Meads station that does cover Bristols slavery connection.

I see now a museum curator has been advising protesters the best ways to destroy statues https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8405899/Museum-curator-tweets-advice-destroy-bronze-statues-chemicals-BLM-protests.html

Surely he must be on dodgy ground inciting damage

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Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely he must be on dodgy ground inciting damage

She actually.  I don't know - because she probably spoke in 'general terms'.  Can't see her being charged with anything, though she should loose her job.

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20 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

She actually.  I don't know - because she probably spoke in 'general terms'.  Can't see her being charged with anything, though she should loose her job.

she will probably receive a medal our insane mayor now wants to replace colston with a rights activist statue we must be after an award for the most insane town in the country lol 

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3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

she will probably receive a medal our insane mayor now wants to replace colston with a rights activist statue we must be after an award for the most insane town in the country lol 

In fact she is from Royston, Hertfordshire.  The idea of a curator publishing ways to effectively destroy museum artefacts is wrong.

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Just now, JohnfromUK said:

In fact she is from Royston, Hertfordshire.  The idea of a curator publishing ways to effectively destroy museum artefacts is wrong.

you have to live here to understand just how mad the town is offend anyone or anything your in trouble my advice to anyone wishing to move here is DONT! 

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1 minute ago, clangerman said:

you have to live here to understand just how mad the town is offend anyone or anything your in trouble my advice to anyone wishing to move here is DONT! 

Before I retired I used to visit (College Green, by the cathedral) regularly, but don't know it it well at all.

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1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Before I retired I used to visit (College Green, by the cathedral) regularly, but don't know it it well at all.

your lucky we have a right on attitude these days did you catch the large eco nut protest on the green? all but destroyed it so much for save the planet 

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18 hours ago, zipdog said:

 

I am in favour of pulling down the statue, many people died in terrible circumstances and lived horrendous lives to enrich one man. 

Mercedes is a living breathing company and whilst may have a chequered passed has the ability to change, learn and adapt. The same way I would not be in favour of pulling down schools or hospitals which are built in his name. They are living a breathing organism. 

A drug dealer who has also made a lot of money should just give a bit away to charity. Not only then will his crimes be forgiven by the world, but people will also defend a statue in his honour!!

 

And the concentration camp victims of Mercedes had an easy time compared to African slaves ?

both are wrong but you can justify Mercedes 🤣

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2 hours ago, Modafinale said:

And the concentration camp victims of Mercedes had an easy time compared to African slaves ?

both are wrong but you can justify Mercedes 🤣

I wouldn't think anyone is justifying but didn't post Nazi Germany pay something like several billion to Israel in reparation?

And no, I'm not advocating the US or anyone else pay reparations for slavery, that's a can of worms that does not need opening in my opinion.

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21 hours ago, Modafinale said:

And the concentration camp victims of Mercedes had an easy time compared to African slaves ?

both are wrong but you can justify Mercedes 🤣

I am not saying the actions of Mercedes were right at the time, far from it. However, Mercedes as a company is still around today with different leadership and a change in values. Colston on the other hand is dead. If he was still around I am not saying he should not be punished and educated untiled he understood slavery was wrong and was remorseful for his actions. But after that he would be allowed to continue to evolve into a better personal until he finally died. 

Even then I don’t think i would support a statue in the honour of Mercedes or Colston.

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46 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Colston did evolve and put a lot into the community - far more than the current mob tearing down statues. They destroy - he created.

I think Colston destroyed a lot more lives and communities than a ‘mob’ wrecking a statue or two!!

Edited by zipdog
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Whilst I accept Colston was involved in the slave trade, I don't know that he broke any law at that time. The cretins who topple statues are lawbreakers. Not sure why "mob" is highlighted. That is exactly what they are. Please don't tell me they have a higher purpose, because that would just be a bit silly.

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