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Guys,

I am looking for some recommendations for a HPR, the intention is to use the dog for rough shooting and a hide companion as well as a family pet.

It will be my first time dog training so I am looking for something I can train easily.

Any advice would be welcomed 

thanks

west

 

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I have had two breeds,  GSP and Viszla and can only say they where excellent companions and hunters, not the very best retrievers but would still do the job.  Both breeds are not the easiest to train and need patience BUT you have to make sure they know you are the Boss man right from the start and that means as soon as they step over the threshold.   Mine where happy to go to sleep in a pigeon hide or under a high seat.  Both are excellent rough shooting dogs and will not tell you lies.  All my HPRs have been killing machines and never told lies. In addition they where brilliant at tracking wounded deer.  All my dogs lived in as family.   Like all dogs you get out what you put in.  Teach them good manners and obedience and they will teach you to hunt.

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1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

I have had two breeds,  GSP and Viszla and can only say they where excellent companions and hunters, not the very best retrievers but would still do the job.  Both breeds are not the easiest to train and need patience BUT you have to make sure they know you are the Boss man right from the start and that means as soon as they step over the threshold.   Mine where happy to go to sleep in a pigeon hide or under a high seat.  Both are excellent rough shooting dogs and will not tell you lies.  All my HPRs have been killing machines and never told lies. In addition they where brilliant at tracking wounded deer.  All my dogs lived in as family.   Like all dogs you get out what you put in.  Teach them good manners and obedience and they will teach you to hunt.

Thanks for the advice, I was thinking of a Viszla but spoke to a breeder who ware s me off and suggested I got a lab?

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I’m biased towards Weimaraners. On the open Moor they cover less ground but much more controllable on a rough shoot. You need to go to an HPR club, spring points, field trial or working test and watch them work. 

Where are you based?

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Well, I have had five and trained a fifth for a friend upto six months old and they have all been cracking dogs.  The big problem with buying any breed these days is gready ******** over breeding and close breeding with results that you get defects.  My GSP was like that and had a seizure/fit when only six years old which killed him. He was a serious machine out in the field but his father was 10years old and mother 9 years old which according to my vet was the reason PLUS the mother was very close bred to the father.  No disrespect but there are people around who think the only gun dogs are spaniels and labs.  The HPRs are as good as and sometimes...rough shooting... far better.  A dog on point gives you time to position yourself for the shot and even if 100yrds away will stay there until you give the command, unlike a spaniel which will flush everything in it's path.  I love 'em all, the long and the short and the tall.  Had a couple of days last year where a weimeraner ....have I spelt that right? ... worked and did the job in spades.  It is almost all down to training. A badly trained dog from field trial parents is going to be as big a pain the backside as any other.

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Edited by Walker570
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Think long and hard about what you want the dog to do. 
 

HPR’s are fantastic breeds, I believe some say the GSP is one of the easier ones to train... however if I had never trained a dog before, wanted a dog that was inside the house where the family would likely be doing stuff with it (whether told to or not) and I wanted it to sit in a hide with the odd bit of walked about, I’d seriously consider a lab... I always say to people and have said on here many times, you can train almost AMG dog to have a go at a job but why make it hard for yourself 🤔🤷‍♂️
 

The advise to go to a trial or test and ask owners about them is good... just watch out for the same thing with guns... everyone will tell you the most fantastic one is the one they happen to own. 
 

BTW I don’t own a lab at the moment Juat springer (with another on the way) but anyone can see they’re tidy dogs especially for being in the hide, family dogs and general all purpose shooting. 
 

I have always been told and thought HPR’s were a bit more specialist and harder to train? But I’ll hold my hands up and admit I’ve never had one. 

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3 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

If you're going to try with a HPR, go for the best, a very well bred German Wirehaired Pointer, love mine. Second to none, brilliant at everything but bloody hard work to train right.

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They're real crackers, have you had other HPR’s to compare? 
 

Ive heard the HV’s are something else very quirky compared to other HPR’s but who knows 🤷‍♂️
 

 

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Got one of ninjafeets gwp pups in training at the minute, fantastic nose covers the ground with ease, taking commands well but headstrong on scent (but she has just been laid up for 4wks due to a foot injury) they fire into cover with no concern for there welfare. I had a weimaraner (seriva lines) previously who was a much more selective bitch, if there was no scent she would know and just turn and give you the look if there was nothing around, but would stred herself to find the last bird or sit in a hide all afternoon just as easy, until I got a runner one day then there was a rather large hole in the net. Get out on some training days and speak to as many owners of working dogs as you can, they don't do great as just pets, but give them something to think about and you won't own a more faithful companion.

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28 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Surprised to see a gwp 11 months old come up on fb today from working parents . But you just get the feeling the wheels have come off but who knows

Where was this at please ?

32 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:


They're real crackers, have you had other HPR’s to compare? 
 

Ive heard the HV’s are something else very quirky compared to other HPR’s but who knows 🤷‍♂️
 

 

I've had all sorts of everything, lol, and still have as shootthepigeon knows. All have a purpose but as shootthe pigeon has found, he's never had anything on the end of a lead like her and she's still just a pup, wait till she grows up , but I did warn him !!!!:whistling:

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14 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

Where was this at please ?

I've had all sorts of everything, lol, and still have as shootthepigeon knows. All have a purpose but as shootthe pigeon has found, he's never had anything on the end of a lead like her and she's still just a pup, wait till she grows up , but I did warn him !!!!

Nothing that can't be overcome, the last 4 weeks have been hell, have you tried to keep a gwp still? She is so laid back usually its just at the minute on scent her heads like a referees whistle a little bit of scent up her nose and her brain spins like the pea🤯, but she is listening more now everything isn't quite as fresh😀 this lab pup will be a breeze 🤞

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10 hours ago, Westley78 said:

Thanks for the advice, I was thinking of a Viszla but spoke to a breeder who ware s me off and suggested I got a lab?

 

In my opinion that's the best advice u'll get.

 

I think if u don't need a dog to point or open ground, to work it, I think it is a waste of a dog owning an hpr,

Owning most shooting breeds will be a compromise between the breeds strong points and wot u need for ur shooting.

An hpr ur making too many compromises and not even using ur hprs strongest points ( pointing, ranging/quartering at distance ) that's wot they've been specially bred for for hundreds of years.

 

Hprs can be fantastic dogs in the right conditions but they also can be ur worst nightmare.

Even on right walked up days can be a nightmare when other breeds working along side ( I used to run a small shoot and hated hprs coming even thou the ground suited them)

If ur walking in a line with dogs hunting in front u can have hprs going on point well Infront off line and off to side off handler, so they have to walk over to it crossing in front of other guns, just was a complete pain even with well trained dogs.

 

 

I have a soft pont for gwps but would never recommend 1 to anyone, esp not a novice handler, some males can be a real handful, there can be a massive difference between sexes temperament even out off same litter.

 

With my 1st wire I did hope to get it up to FT standard but unfortunately never managed ( my fault rather than dogs) but I went to quite a few training clubs or group session with top trainers.

Seen some absolutely terrible pointers over the years, while very few owners will ever admit to having a rubbish dog u really don't have to speak to many owners privately to find 1 with a wild sheep/cat/deer killing uncontrollable hpr.

A!most every dog owner has rose tinted specs for there own dogs/favourite breed but I think it is even worse with hpr owners, heard many praise there dog to moon then u see it working and think ur watching a different dog. Seen some real rubbish described as brilliant.

Can only speak from wot I've seen but often many of the smooth coated dogs do struggle with cold and/or water, althou I do think more to do with how u introduce them.

I have seen a few very good HWV, generally a bit softer to train than gwp but also can be tricky, quite fancy having one 1 day.

Seen a few good KGs too althou don't know so much about the breed

With most hpr breeds doing ur homework and getting the right lines can be almost as important as buying the right breed.

Many breeds of hpr can be quite noisy too, wether whining or barking more so than normal gundog breeds.

 

If u don't want a dog to point us be far far easier with a lab esp for a 1st time trainer, u will make plenty mistakes but with a lab it usually so easy to rectify them with the right advice, not always the case with hprs.

Can be very hard work to fix a mistake.

 

Edit

Just to add it's all very well watching online clips off different breeds working but chances are ur seeing the better dogs when there performing at there best ( very few will put clips of there dog misbehaving) chances are as a 1st time or even amatuer trainer u won't get anywhere near that standard.

Ur better looking at the standard off average or poorly trained dogs as realistically even with best intention most likely.

I've seen a lot off poorly trained dogs off all different varieties but a poor hpr is a nightmare.

Probably a poorly trained lab is the most common dog u'll see but u can usually cope with 1

 

Also as a pet dunno if ur Mrs or any kids would walk ur dog, a lab will be far easier to train to walk to heel.

Almost every hpr breed will be a bit harder to train to walk to heel and more head strong if gets on a scent when free running

Edited by scotslad
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7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:


They're real crackers, have you had other HPR’s to compare? 
 

Ive heard the HV’s are something else very quirky compared to other HPR’s but who knows 🤷‍♂️
 

 

I’m on the committee for NW GSP training group. We have all HPR breeds represented. Everyone favours their own. The best dogs have the best trainers. Not many people will even know of Large Munsterlanders but I’ve seen some cracking dogs. The only HPRs I would personally avoid are Italian Spinone (too heavy), Brittany (too live and head strong) and Bracco Italiano (too dopey). I would caveat that I’ve seen less than a dozen of each of those rare breeds working so it is a small sample pool. 

They all have their best applications. If you are shooting walked up grouse a GWP or GSP. If you are shooting partridge over turnip a HV or HWV. If you are rough shooting over mixed cover, a Weimaraner or HWV. 

All the HPRs have different temperaments. The vislas can be very sensitive, have seen them fold up dozens and dozens of times. It depends what you are like as a person and a trainer to decide what is best. If you are soft a GWP will run all over you.

 

You need to go to an HPR group, see the dogs and speak to the handlers. My friend @worrall26 wanted a Brittany, but in the end suited a Labrador best. He certainly hasn’t regretted that decision. 

 

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1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m on the committee for NW GSP training group. We have all HPR breeds represented. Everyone favours their own. The best dogs have the best trainers. Not many people will even know of Large Munsterlanders but I’ve seen some cracking dogs. The only HPRs I would personally avoid are Italian Spinone (too heavy), Brittany (too live and head strong) and Bracco Italiano (too dopey). I would caveat that I’ve seen less than a dozen of each of those rare breeds working so it is a small sample pool. 

They all have their best applications. If you are shooting walked up grouse a GWP or GSP. If you are shooting partridge over turnip a HV or HWV. If you are rough shooting over mixed cover, a Weimaraner or HWV. 

All the HPRs have different temperaments. The vislas can be very sensitive, have seen them fold up dozens and dozens of times. It depends what you are like as a person and a trainer to decide what is best. If you are soft a GWP will run all over you.

 

You need to go to an HPR group, see the dogs and speak to the handlers. My friend @worrall26 wanted a Brittany, but in the end suited a Labrador best. He certainly hasn’t regretted that decision. 

 

Don't know what Bracco Italiano you saw to come to the conclusion that they're "too dopey" but I've got 3 and they're anything but "Dopey"! Two already work and I'll start the third one on game this season. They are very keen with a huge prey drive. Around the house they do act like clowns but in the field they totally transform. Need a sensitive hand and you have to keep on top them but, in my opinion, they are wonderful animals.

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That’s good, I am genuinely pleased that there are decent Braccos out there. 

My shooting buddy has had two and both were useless,  to be fair he is an awful trainer and he would be the first to admit it. Now he’s ruining trained spaniels. The first Bracco was gunshy (probably bad training), allergic to feathers, and had hay fever. It would run away. It lost its tail in an accident then killed itself eating a stick. Honestly it was the dopiest dog I’ve seen. The second one is no better but with fewer allergies. I’ve only seen maybe 6 work, a mixture of those two and some at working tests. With all rare breeds (like large munsterlander) there will be some great dogs and an equal number of poor ones, in a small sample you can have a skewed perspective. 

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10 hours ago, captainhastings said:

Surprised to see a gwp 11 months old come up on fb today from working parents . But you just get the feeling the wheels have come off but who knows

Yes, I acquired my GSP at 10 months old and he was a lucky one. His owner brought it back to the breeder as the guys wife was abusing the dog .... sounded like she wasn't right in the head .... it took four months before Mole would eventually accept my wife. We named him Mole,  because he did not know his original name, which was apparently Ben and that has to say something.

Mole settled in straight away and I spent hours and hours with him in the first six months. He became probably my second best dog hunting wise and a constant companion.

We get so much garbage realed out about the breeding of a dog but as I said before, if it isn't taught it's manners and behaviour, like kids they become a nightmare. Not a lot of difference.

One quite funny incident with Mole and my other dogs was one day a couple of spaniels, sisters in fact started to scrap. Now I have always had my dogs respond to CAR!! and they imediately take refuge there, which gets them out of any trouble.  This day my Range Rover back top door was closed ... now Mole could jump in there with the bottom door closed with ease and he took off and realised the top door was closed, hit it and slid down to the ground.  The look he gave me would have frozen a river.  One afternoon a cyclist riding passed our home nearly went in the ditch. Mole was sat on top, on the roof of my Range Rover surveying the scene which he regularly did. He would hop on the bonnet, then onto the roof and sit or lay there for hours, watching the world go bye.  HPRs of all types are characters, but vizslas are different altogether, just something about them and I love all dogs.

 

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12 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

Where was this at please ?

I've had all sorts of everything, lol, and still have as shootthepigeon knows. All have a purpose but as shootthe pigeon has found, he's never had anything on the end of a lead like her and she's still just a pup, wait till she grows up , but I did warn him !!!!:whistling:

West wales 

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