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Police Scotland declare 'major incident' following reports of multiple stabbings before suspect shot dead


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I totally missed the bit about a quick reaction force member being mistaken for a terrorist.

They wear what we all do and only put the kit on when the need arises.  That's how they go unnoticed until they have to, and how they generally sort things pretty quickly.

Acquiring a military grade firearm, body armour, helmet etc as a pretence to commit an attack would be over egging it a bit given its demonstrably possible to do so with intent and a knife.

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28 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I totally missed the bit about a quick reaction force member being mistaken for a terrorist.

They wear what we all do and only put the kit on when the need arises.  That's how they go unnoticed until they have to, and how they generally sort things pretty quickly.

Acquiring a military grade firearm, body armour, helmet etc as a pretence to commit an attack would be over egging it a bit given its demonstrably possible to do so with intent and a knife.

Have to agree, this seemed a bit of an odd thing to pick up on from today's tragic events.

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1 hour ago, Fuddster said:

Having worked with many ex marines and other services, I have much more faith in our armed services to respond accordingly

I said marines because I know 45 commando are based in Scotland,  as things are at present I can't see what I've said happening,  but look at the London attacks,  if someone is running down the street, armed and a few lads come out of a pub and see him? Something saying police stops the wrong person possibly getting shot, even just a cap, it would be tragic. 

1 hour ago, Fuddster said:

As for casual dress-well perhaps he was on plain clothes duties, coming or going on/off duty, training staff or called in from home.

I imagine so, I'd just expect once your armed being under cover is gone.

And yes it certainly was a job well done.

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As for casual dress-well perhaps he was on plain clothes duties, coming or going on/off duty, training staff or called in from home.

either way its a job well done in my books

 

.They would not be trusted to be armed going on duty, they would first need to go to the station to get firearms. 

Edited by ordnance
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18 minutes ago, Zapp said:

 

They wear what we all do and only put the kit on when the need arises.  That's how they go unnoticed until they have to, and how they generally sort things pretty quickly.

 

I was thinking much the same thing. We know from the last shooting of a terrorist that these guys are following or at least being kept alert as to the movements of those on the watch list. In that case they're clearly going to be in plain clothes.

I remember spotting a couple of plain clothes coppers on the M1. Unmarked car, no uniform, they would have gone completely unnoticed but for the Police baseball caps on the dash lol.

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5 minutes ago, ordnance said:

.They would not be trusted to be armed going on duty, they would first need to go to the station to get firearms. 

Trusted?

You do know in northern Ireland some officers Carey personal protection weapons, both on and off duty. They are "trusted"

7 minutes ago, ordnance said:

.They would not be trusted to be armed going on duty, they would first need to go to the station to get firearms. 

And I think zapp was referring to going on duty, i.e walking in to the station before it kicked off and deploying with a gun before they had time to change in to uniform

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13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I said marines because I know 45 commando are based in Scotland,  as things are at present I can't see what I've said happening,  but look at the London attacks,  if someone is running down the street, armed and a few lads come out of a pub and see him? Something saying police stops the wrong person possibly getting shot, even just a cap, it would be tragic. 

I imagine so, I'd just expect once your armed being under cover is gone.

And yes it certainly was a job well done.

All afo's and sfo's are designated a personal  identifier to id them in force and at a national level-denoting their home force,collar number  and shift/team-the exception being for sfo's having no collar numbers.

If its a firearms operation, hard helmets prevail over soft caps-unless its surveillance led or the flying squad.

Discreet arming can be maintained until the very last moment for maximum gain.

atb

f.

 

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6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The front end looks like an AR15 platform to me but the butt seems wrong?

I have a LA-SF15 stubby which looks very similar except the butt.

It’s a pdw style stock. x-products-roc-rapid-operations-carbine-

But it’s definitely a Ar15 platform.  Magpul magazine and all.  Probably 556.  Is 300 bulk popular over there? 

Edited by NoBodyImportant
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18 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

The C8 cqb would have a 11.6 barrel would it not?  That appears to be a 9in rail if you follow the flash hider back it looks like the barrel ends about a inch after the  rails which would put it at the 10.3 inch length.  I reserve the right to be wrong. 

It looks like a C8 (L119A1/2) with a different butt to me and that's issued to UKSF.  Not sure about CT police.

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There's a big difference between local units on standby and these guys, it would need to be absolute national meltdown before regular soldiers were sent into this sort of situation because it's not what they are trained for.  They'll either be SO19 or SF/SFSG.  

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13 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

It’s a pdw style stock. x-products-roc-rapid-operations-carbine-

But it’s definitely a Ar15 platform.  Magpul magazine and all.  Probably 556.  Is 300 bulk popular over there? 

That explains it👍

14 minutes ago, Zapp said:

It looks like a C8 (L119A1/2) with a different butt to me and that's issued to UKSF.  Not sure about CT police.

Along with this.

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6 minutes ago, Zapp said:

There's a big difference between local units on standby and these guys, it would need to be absolute national meltdown before regular soldiers were sent into this sort of situation because it's not what they are trained for.  They'll either be SO19 or SF/SFSG.  

It was around the same time as a local PC had been shot. Perhaps this was the reason it was put in place.

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1 hour ago, ordnance said:

.They would not be trusted to be armed going on duty, they would first need to go to the station to get firearms. 

Quote

 

Trusted?

You do know in northern Ireland some officers Carey personal protection weapons, both on and off duty. They are "trusted"

 

Yes they should be trusted / but they are not.  All not some, police officers in N/I carry on and off duty. 

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45 minutes ago, Zapp said:

There's a big difference between local units on standby and these guys, it would need to be absolute national meltdown before regular soldiers were sent into this sort of situation because it's not what they are trained for.  They'll either be SO19 or SF/SFSG.  

With that in mind, I know the cats out of the bag, but to not add to it, maybe the picture could be taken down or the guy's face blanked out?

25 minutes ago, ordnance said:
1 hour ago, ordnance said:

.They would not be trusted to be armed going on duty, they would first need to go to the station to get firearms. 

Yes they should be trusted / but they are not.  All not some, police officers in N/I carry on and off duty. 

Well I don't think it's a trust issue, more a is it required issue.

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Well I don't think it's a trust issue, more a is it required issue.

That would be one reason among others mostly political.  Makes you wonder why most European police force's are armed, when they might not require them any more that the UK. They are not required until they are, like if you are standing unarmed outside parliament and you are murdered by a knife man, while your well protected superior is hiding in his car. 

Edited by ordnance
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8 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

The C8 cqb would have a 11.6 barrel would it not?  That appears to be a 9in rail if you follow the flash hider back it looks like the barrel ends about a inch after the  rails which would put it at the 10.3 inch length.  I reserve the right to be wrong. 

10 inch barrel! They also make an 11.6" version.

 

Personally I don't care what the Officer in the red T shirt is wearing, he responded putting his life in danger for the safety of the populace.

Edited by TIGHTCHOKE
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7 hours ago, ordnance said:

That would be one reason among others mostly political.  Makes you wonder why most European police force's are armed, when they might not require them any more that the UK. They are not required until they are, like if you are standing unarmed outside parliament and you are murdered by a knife man, while your well protected superior is hiding in his car. 

Police by consent in the uk

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