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akka

Verney-carron o/u

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I have been on the lookout for a second gun, something cheapish to use as a spare or in the hedgerows, something that I wont cry about getting the odd knock or scratch. I saw this Verney Carron 12B O/U, looked a bit unusual, but I like to have something a bit different. So I bought it. It's really light and feels great to hold. I took it out today for a few clays and I've got to say its recoil is savage to say the least. I was shooting 28g clay loads and after about 30 my shoulder had had enough. It's a cracking little gun and I really like it but the thought of putting some heavier game loads through it is not something I look forward to. So I think a recoil pad is a must for this little gun. I popped the gun on the scales and it comes in at only 2.8kg. Can anyone recommend an aftermarket recoil pad they have used? Yeah, I know, man up and all that. I know I'm a big wuss!😁

20200628_121254.jpg

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Pad will make no difference,find some softer shooting cartridges!!!

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Yes, next outing will try some 24 or even 21g carts and see what that's like. 

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The French in the main - although this is changing - do walked up so their guns are usually on the lighter side. From the 96:1 rule you should have been OK with the ounce. Dropping the load with the clays is fine but for the hedgerows you may want to keep the ounce so have a look at the possibility of a fitting problem perhaps.

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2.8 Kg is only a little over 6 lbs, so that is light for a 12 - particularly a 12 o/u.  I use light 12s (s/s) and use 21g Hull Comp X.  There is quite a lot of difference in recoil between brands - and I find the Hull nice whereas Eleys 21g was 'fierce'.  My 'normal' s/s 12 is about 6 1/2 lbs.

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i had one years ago they are light weight and do kick like a mule if you dont have a very firm grip on the gun mine was proofed for magnum shells but i never tried it with them thank god haha

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Looks a lot of drop on that stock as well which doesn't help.  Yes, find some nice light loads and if you do your job they will kill anyhting within a sensible range.  It's a walk up gun so don't expect to be shooting fifty shells every time you go out with it.

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Posted (edited)

It's not about having to "man up" and anybody that replies saying the OP needs to do so is talking daft. It's about two features of the gun that both don't help. And if the cartridges he's using are also loose in the chamber such that they slide back and forwards that won't help either. So he could try some with thicker rims if such now exist?

The lightweight and the extreme gradient of drop at face and drop at heel. I've shot a Holland .470 NE Double Rifle with less felt recoil than a 20 Bore firing 70mm cartridges...so if the stock is shaped properly then whilst the lightweight will still be a problem at least the firer isn't feeling as if he or she has just done three or four rounds with Mike Tyson.

So this below:

 

1 hour ago, matone said:

Pad will make no difference,find some softer shooting cartridges!!!

Indeed a pad, assuming the stock is the correct length will make no difference other than the difference it makes in reducing the recoil simply by the weight it adds to the gun.

 

26 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Looks a lot of drop on that stock as well which doesn't help.  Yes, find some nice light loads and if you do your job they will kill anyhting within a sensible range.  It's a walk up gun so don't expect to be shooting fifty shells every time you go out with it.

Yes. What he says. As also IMHO the drop at the face isn't helping at all with making it pleasant to shoot. 

Edited by enfieldspares

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A friend of mine has the same Vernay Carron with a straight hand stock. He never mentions recoil.  I like light guns. My regular 12 bore driven game gun weighs 6 lbs 2 oz and shoots 28 gram Supreme Game all day with no issues. It has been professionally fitted to me by the makers shooting school. I have another sidelock weighing 6 lbs 12 oz and that feels a really heavy gun to me.  If a different brand of cartridges doesn’t help check if your gun has excessive headspace as that will make recoil seem sharper.

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Well it was only ever going to see an occasional bit of action. I'm going to keep it. Will see next weekend what some different cartridges do for it. It is interesting what difference the stock geometry makes, I have not really given that much thought before. Thanks for the insight.

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58 minutes ago, wymberley said:

The French in the main - although this is changing - do walked up so their guns are usually on the lighter side. From the 96:1 rule you should have been OK with the ounce. Dropping the load with the clays is fine but for the hedgerows you may want to keep the ounce so have a look at the possibility of a fitting problem perhaps.

I think the 96.1 ratio was arrived at before velocities were pushed up to modern day  heights tbh. There`s a big difference between various 1oz loads now.

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Just looking at it I reckon there's a lot of drop in that stock. I can't see the end of the stock but if there's positive pitch you could have the stock really digging into you. Depending on your mount it may help having a pad fitted with the stock squared off to the rib

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I've got the 12g super lite weights in at 5lb 5oz,all my shooting is walked up so on good day maybe just into double figures for shots fired, gave 32g game loads a go soon moved on to 28g clay loads. 

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26 minutes ago, matone said:

I think the 96.1 ratio was arrived at before velocities were pushed up to modern day  heights tbh.

I never heard of this. Just googled it. Its great what you can learn here!

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14 minutes ago, daisyrob1 said:

I've got the 12g super lite weights in at 5lb 5oz

Blimey, that's pretty light. Can see why you stopped using 32g.

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I used to shoot with a lady who shot a very pretty little ladies 12 gauge in 2 inch and she could hold her own against all the cannon shooters, so a lighter load will still do the job.

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I think the 96 to one ratio may date right back to black powder days.  I certainly remember the late Gough Thomas using it in his articles - which would have been 1960s.

My first gun (which I still have nearly 50 years on) weighs 6 lbs 4oz - which my godfather (who gave it to me) said was ideal for the (then standard) 1 1/16 oz game load.  It shoots an ounce (28g) sweetly, but I now use an AyA which is a little heavier at about 6 1/2 lbs.

He used guns just on 6lbs and preferred Winchester GB one ounce - which was a pretty 'pokey' load, but he was a big man and had done a huge amount of shooting.

O/U guns are typically heavier - and I guess that the majority of "game/field" models are comfortably over 7 lbs.

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1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

I used to shoot with a lady who shot a very pretty little ladies 12 gauge in 2 inch and she could hold her own against all the cannon shooters, so a lighter load will still do the job.

This. 
I can’t understand why people think you need more than an ounce of shot to shoot average game, walked up or driven

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Just now, London Best said:

This. 
I can’t understand why people think you need more than an ounce of shot to shoot average game, walked up or driven

100% agree.  The 'old tradition' was to use 1 1/16 oz (Eley Grand Prix were a (the?) big name then), but 1 oz (such as Impax) were always popular as were the Winchester GB 1 ounce series.

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9 minutes ago, akka said:

Blimey, that's pretty light. Can see why you stopped using 32g.

Ye really like mine as yours got the strange French safety catch? 

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Just now, JohnfromUK said:

100% agree.  The 'old tradition' was to use 1 1/16 oz (Eley Grand Prix were a (the?) big name then), but 1 oz (such as Impax) were always popular as were the Winchester GB 1 ounce series.

I used thousands of Win GB’s throughout the 1990’s. Very good squibs.

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2 minutes ago, daisyrob1 said:

Ye really like mine as yours got the strange French safety catch? 

Yup, little wheel on the right of the front trigger. Never seen one like that before. 

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15 minutes ago, akka said:

I never heard of this. Just googled it. Its great what you can learn here!

Yep, but it's always worth remembering that any information or theory relating to shotgun performance is best taken as a guide and is not definitive so the 96:1 still has merit. What Matone said is valid but many would be surprised to discover that back along a No 7 given a velocity of 1150 ft/sec was actually over 1500 at the muzzle. Although it probably doesn't apply here, one French maker who has a range of "standard" stock dimensions although the range of the LoP element is the same the figures for the drop is different between the French and UK market.

There's nothing feminine or lady-like about the 2" - it's a right little brute - the thinking man's 20 bore.

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Posted (edited)

What Wymberley says is true. Velocities for shotguns were always quoted as ‘observed velocity’, ie an average over a certain distance, usually 20 yards. Today manufacturers give muzzle velocities.......and exaggerate, a lot sometimes.

Edit: the 96:1 rule comes from W.W. Greener, who knew a thing or two about gun making. (Quite a long time ago, so google him if you think all guns are made in Europe)

Edited by London Best

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