Scully Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Carlos Ghosn managed to escape from Japan. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-50964040 He did indeed; but he wasn’t jailed for the best part of a year without trial either. Like I’ve said, if it were a murder trial I could possibly understand it, but still, a year? Do you believe it’s acceptable to jail someone for the best part of a year without a trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scully said: Do you believe it’s acceptable to jail someone for the best part of a year without a trial? It isn't good. However I do understand why 'freeing' her on bail is a big risk. All the Maxwells are slippery customers - shady friends, money vanishing and appearing as if by magic, pension funds gone ......... I don't see why it has to take a year before the trial? I also don't see the offences with which she is likely to be charged (multiple instances of under age child trafficking for sex) as significantly less serious than murder. It's not as though she's charged with pinching a few pictures, or defrauding a business - peoples lives have been ruined for self gratification. Of course - IF she is found not guilty - then she will no doubt sue for compensation, but that can only happen 'if and when' she is found not guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 On 15/07/2020 at 14:31, Scully said: Regardless of what I think about Maxwell, I find it harsh that she was denied bail and is remanded in custody until her trial next year. She hasn’t been found guilty yet, and it’s not like she couldn’t be found if she absconded, an act which would condemn her and ultimately seal her fate. If you watch the Netflix series on Epstein, your view might change. It is said that he was coercing witnesses, bribing police and prosecutors and generally evading the law at every opportunity. Maxwell was his girlfriend at the time and comes from a similar parental background. If she were to be released, the likelihood of her ever returning is zero. Sometimes an apparent injustice is necessary to ensure that justice is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 No, I don’t think my view would change. I genuinely think she has few if any redeeming features, but to in prison someone for a year simply stinks of corruption to me. I can’t help thinking that she is being made to sweat a bit. It’s like all interested parties have colluded ....... ‘ Bang her up for a year, and when she gets a taste of what she may be facing ( another 35 on top ) she’ll be singing like a bird.’ Like I’ve said, a month perhaps, but a year without trial? It stinks to high heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) I guess that the US courts have the same challenges dealing with Covid 19 as our courts do, and we are facing backlogs, or are you suggesting that she should have priority over ordinary common criminals Edited July 16, 2020 by amateur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, amateur said: I guess that the US courts have the same challenges dealing with Covid 19 as our courts do, and we are facing backlogs, or are you suggesting that she should have priority over ordinary common criminals Possibly they do have challenges, but doesn’t the logic of that comment mean ALL people currently ( and until the backlog is resolved ) remanded in custody and denied bail, and regardless of their alleged crimes, are in jail for around a year before facing trial? I doubt that’s the case. I’m not defending her at all, I just don’t find a years incarceration without trial acceptable at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Scully said: Possibly they do have challenges, but doesn’t the logic of that comment mean ALL people currently ( and until the backlog is resolved ) remanded in custody and denied bail, and regardless of their alleged crimes, are in jail for around a year before facing trial? I doubt that’s the case. I’m not defending her at all, I just don’t find a years incarceration without trial acceptable at all. I guess that if they too presented a significant flight risk, they too would be treated the same as Maxwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, amateur said: I guess that if they too presented a significant flight risk, they too would be treated the same as Maxwell. I’m not questioning her status as a flight risk, just the fact some find it acceptable to imprison someone for nigh on a year without trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Judge In Epstein Case's Son Shot Through The Heart By Assassin Dressed As Fedex Driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I couldn’t understand why Maxwell was so stupid enough to hang around in the US or indeed any country where she could be reached by the US government. You would have thought that she’d have got her running shoes on as soon as the Netflix documentary came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, Mungler said: I couldn’t understand why Maxwell was so stupid enough to hang around in the US or indeed any country where she could be reached by the US government. You would have thought that she’d have got her running shoes on as soon as the Netflix documentary came out. Does she not have a French passport , along with UK & US ones ..she could have been long gone to France where it’s very difficult to get extradited back to the US .. I bet she wishes she had done a runner now ..there’s going to be a lot of people wondering if there names in the frame ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, moose man said: Does she not have a French passport , along with UK & US ones ..she could have been long gone to France where it’s very difficult to get extradited back to the US .. I bet she wishes she had done a runner now ..there’s going to be a lot of people wondering if there names in the frame ... She sure does. It's one of the reasons they won't give her bail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Quote I can’t help thinking that she is being made to sweat a bit. It’s like all interested parties have colluded ....... ‘ Bang her up for a year, and when she gets a taste of what she may be facing ( another 35 on top ) she’ll be singing like a bird.’ On the money. I find it hard to believe her innocence, but with a minimal pre-trial hearing, a trial date of one year hence seems deliberately lengthy. Quote I couldn’t understand why Maxwell was so stupid enough to hang around in the US or indeed any country where she could be reached by the US government. You would have thought that she’d have got her running shoes on as soon as the Netflix documentary came out. She remained in the USA and she must have known what the justice system is like. A serious misjudgement on her part, for which she is now paying. Whilst I accept I have no personal knowledge of her case, it did strike me that the USA is more likely to "plea bargain" than others countries. I suspect that she will think she has enough hidden up her sleeve to get a better deal than elsewhere. It will be interesting to see which way it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako7mm Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Loving the fact that Pigeonwatch is full of experts who know how long it should take for the American legal system to organise a trial. Dozens of witnesses to get before a Court, various sensitivities to iron out relating to what is or isn't going to be presented before a jury, negotiations between prosecution and defence legal teams, service of evidence which needs to be prepared for presentation, fitting a long trial into an already busy Court schedule. They really should get the experts on here to assist. It'd all be over in an hour or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sako7mm said: .....They really should get the experts on here to assist. It'd all be over in an hour or two. .... and she would be hanged in three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Quote Loving the fact that Pigeonwatch is full of experts who know how long it should take for the American legal system to organise a trial. Perhaps I have missed something or has any poster actually said they know how long it should take to organise a trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Sako7mm said: Loving the fact that Pigeonwatch is full of experts who know how long it should take for the American legal system to organise a trial. Dozens of witnesses to get before a Court, various sensitivities to iron out relating to what is or isn't going to be presented before a jury, negotiations between prosecution and defence legal teams, service of evidence which needs to be prepared for presentation, fitting a long trial into an already busy Court schedule. They really should get the experts on here to assist. It'd all be over in an hour or two. How much of an expert does one have to be to consider a year’s incarceration without trial a bit out of order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, Scully said: How much of an expert does one have to be to consider a year’s incarceration without trial a bit out of order? Out of order it may be - but hardly uncommon in the US legal system. Indeed, 'jail', in the US context, specifically means facility where you are incarcerated pending trial. What we would call an 'on remand' prisoner in the UK. Prison is where you go once convicted, usually a separate facility. Jail is not equal to prison. One of those legal misconceptions that refuses to die thanks TV/Hollywood. Others being that judges (in the UK) have gavels (never have done), "ignorance of the law is no defence" (very much is, or at least can be entered in as mitigating circumstances), and that you can choose whatever you want for your last meal (you certainly can, from the prison canteen menu!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr_Nobody said: It's one of the reasons they won't give her bail. Another may be that it is alleged that she has been paying for people to smear witnesses and prosecutors - whether true or not - who knows? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8531293/Ghislaine-Maxwell-paid-25K-Jacob-Wohl-smear-victims-AG-fired.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 9 hours ago, moose man said: Does she not have a French passport , along with UK & US ones ..she could have been long gone to France where it’s very difficult to get extradited back to the US .. I bet she wishes she had done a runner now ..there’s going to be a lot of people wondering if there names in the frame ... What you mean "do a Polanski"? LOL! Yes, I'd guess that having had France refuse to extradite Polanski to the USA (which is why he had all the "aggro" happen when he was in Switzerland) that the US State Department isn't going to play that record again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: Out of order it may be - but hardly uncommon in the US legal system. Indeed, 'jail', in the US context, specifically means facility where you are incarcerated pending trial. What we would call an 'on remand' prisoner in the UK. Prison is where you go once convicted, usually a separate facility. Jail is not equal to prison. One of those legal misconceptions that refuses to die thanks TV/Hollywood. Others being that judges (in the UK) have gavels (never have done), "ignorance of the law is no defence" (very much is, or at least can be entered in as mitigating circumstances), and that you can choose whatever you want for your last meal (you certainly can, from the prison canteen menu!) What I’m trying to get at is that this incarceration/jail/imprisonment, whatever, for a year, flies in the face of the criteria on which our rights and freedoms are based; that of ‘innocent until proven guilty’. She has lost her liberty for the best part of a year, and is suspected of much, but as yet is guilty of nothing. It just doesn’t sit well with me, regardless of what I think of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Scully said: What I’m trying to get at is that this incarceration/jail/imprisonment, whatever, for a year, flies in the face of the criteria on which our rights and freedoms are based; that of ‘innocent until proven guilty’. She has lost her liberty for the best part of a year, and is suspected of much, but as yet is guilty of nothing. It just doesn’t sit well with me, regardless of what I think of her. Again i’m in agreement. If we are going to hold dear to our western values of liberty, democracy and a true and honest justiciary then you have to embrace all parts of that and not just the bits that suit. If one is assumed to be innocent until proven to the contrary then a year of incarceration without any sort of trial is an affront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, grrclark said: Again i’m in agreement. If we are going to hold dear to our western values of liberty, democracy and a true and honest justiciary then you have to embrace all parts of that and not just the bits that suit. If one is assumed to be innocent until proven to the contrary then a year of incarceration without any sort of trial is an affront. Agreed. It is an affront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Welcome to the real world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Welcome to the real world! I live in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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