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A kick in the gonads.


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Got back from work today, wage slip was delivered by post as usual, envelope felt a bit on the thick side, Opened it up there was a nice love letter from the boss informing all staff that over the next 2 weeks there will be drastic cost cutting ie overtime and unfortunately redundancies across all departments.

Since coming back from furlough we have had hours cut, wash our own uniforms, The tea/coffee machine is now 70p used to be free BUT was promised there would be no job losses. 

The letter says that due to the different ranges in experience rather than the last in first out method they will be utilising a points system. Details to follow.

I guarantee my boss has looked into this and has something up his sleeve to avoid paying out any redundancy to anyone who dosn't make the points.

2020 is proving to be quite the year.

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4 minutes ago, AVB said:

That’s bad luck. However undertaking a skills based assessment to select people is quite normal. If your have been there two years or more then you are legally entitled to redundancy.  

Been there 7 years so if my names pulled out the hat at least I won't be leaving empty handed hopefully, what is it now a weeks money for every year? and is that not more depending on your age?

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Sorry to hear that. 

only a quick copy and paste but I hope it is some help. 
 

  • half a week’s pay for each full year you were under 22
  • one week’s pay for each full year you were 22 or older, but under 41
  • one and half week’s pay for each full year you were 41 or older

Length of service is capped at 20 years.

If you were made redundant on or after 6 April 2020, your weekly pay is capped at £538 and the maximum statutory redundancy pay you can get is £16,140. 

 

best of luck. 

Edited by ph5172
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It's never nice being made redundant. I am very sorry to hear it. Do bear in mind that as well as the statutory redundancy pay as stated by PH5172 that you CANNOT be asked to "use your holiday" as part of your notice. So if the company wants you off the premises then they must still pay your that period of notice and any outstanding holiday pay entitlement.

So they cannot say "We'll give you two weeks notice and, of course, you can take your two week holiday that's due. So you don't have to come in." Oh no! If they don't want you to come in they pay you to stay at home for those two weeks and they still pay you additionally to that the two weeks holiday pay that's due plus the statutory redundancy as PH5172 has listed. 

Edited by enfieldspares
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Hi Fatchap 

sorry to hear this

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay

this is the govt calculator 

do you have a union or some sort of collective agreement? If so the methodology of selection should be agreed with them.

some points to keep in mind

1 every dismissal (inc redundancy has to be demonstrably fair ... so if there is a points based system it should be open to verification not just the whim of management.

the easiest is sick days off but even then people with long term health problems can be disadvantaged. 

if you are made redundant  ask for a copy of the calculation to ensure fairness.

have they asked for volunteers ? if not why not? it could go badly for them if they haven't bothered to ask. 

read all you can on the Acas site https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay

not just your part but the employers part as well to see what they should be doing properly

keep written notes of every interaction with management (I said ..he said)from now on, it might be useful. If you can't make the notes at work type up or write up at home the same day.  people think they will remember details ... they won't.

if you are made redundant and you want to contest it you have 3 months less a day from your final day to get a claim to the Employment tribunal. seek legal advice at the earliest opportunity. check your contents household insurance you may have taken legal cover which may pay for a lawyer.

you will be entitled to 7 weeks notice (for 7 complete years) unless your contract says more notice is due. this is subject to tax and NI and you can be  asked to work it. also prorata unused leave to last day again through payroll.

there should be clarity about the "weeks pay" used to define your redundancy pay. read the acas guidance but be aware that if the average of your last 12 weeks pay (including contractual OT but not voluntary OT) is taken it will include the reduction of pay you now have. 

I would strongly argue for the precut average wage to be used.

hope this is of help

 

best regards

 

gdadphil

Correct ACAS link  https://www.acas.org.uk/redundancy

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1 hour ago, fatchap said:

Got back from work today, wage slip was delivered by post as usual, envelope felt a bit on the thick side, Opened it up there was a nice love letter from the boss informing all staff that over the next 2 weeks there will be drastic cost cutting ie overtime and unfortunately redundancies across all departments.

Since coming back from furlough we have had hours cut, wash our own uniforms, The tea/coffee machine is now 70p used to be free BUT was promised there would be no job losses. 

The letter says that due to the different ranges in experience rather than the last in first out method they will be utilising a points system. Details to follow.

I guarantee my boss has looked into this and has something up his sleeve to avoid paying out any redundancy to anyone who dosn't make the points.

2020 is proving to be quite the year.

It’s been a weird year I won’t argue.

this year I’ve been locked up, thrown out my house, bailed for 3 months , lost all my guns, wife’s left with another guy after a 3 month affair only 6 months after the wedding  ,  had 4 months awaiting results for possible testicular cancer. ( all clear ) 
I’ll  be glad when 2020 is over. 🙈🙈🙈🙈

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21 minutes ago, team tractor said:

It’s been a weird year I won’t argue.

this year I’ve been locked up, thrown out my house, bailed for 3 months , lost all my guns, wife’s left with another guy after a 3 month affair only 6 months after the wedding  ,  had 4 months awaiting results for possible testicular cancer. ( all clear ) 
I’ll  be glad when 2020 is over. 🙈🙈🙈🙈

Jesus, I wish you all the best in 2021. 

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36 minutes ago, team tractor said:

It’s been a weird year I won’t argue.

this year I’ve been locked up, thrown out my house, bailed for 3 months , lost all my guns, wife’s left with another guy after a 3 month affair only 6 months after the wedding  ,  had 4 months awaiting results for possible testicular cancer. ( all clear ) 
I’ll  be glad when 2020 is over. 🙈🙈🙈🙈

trust me one of those is a plus i married a piece of rubbish so i took everything from the kids to the cars left her with nothing but a tv she was sick as a parrot chin up mate it’s all upwards from the bottom 

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1 hour ago, fatchap said:

Got back from work today, wage slip was delivered by post as usual, envelope felt a bit on the thick side, Opened it up there was a nice love letter from the boss informing all staff that over the next 2 weeks there will be drastic cost cutting ie overtime and unfortunately redundancies across all departments.

Since coming back from furlough we have had hours cut, wash our own uniforms, The tea/coffee machine is now 70p used to be free BUT was promised there would be no job losses. 

The letter says that due to the different ranges in experience rather than the last in first out method they will be utilising a points system. Details to follow.

I guarantee my boss has looked into this and has something up his sleeve to avoid paying out any redundancy to anyone who dosn't make the points.

2020 is proving to be quite the year.

Best of luck to you 

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1 hour ago, fatchap said:

I guarantee my boss has looked into this and has something up his sleeve to avoid paying out any redundancy to anyone who dosn't make the points.

One firm where I worked wanted to reduce staff numbers, so they appointed a rather unpleasant little HR man who made sure that each and every conversation with an employee contained some sort of accusation.   His surname was Hindhaugh, but we all referred to him as Hande Hoch.

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Redundancy is a bitter pill to swallow - been there are few times.

I've discovered that there is no loyalty in many companies - now I just look at it as 'all square' at the end of the month.  Right now companies are having to make tough commercial decisions and when it's your job to let people go and blow the bottom out of their world it truly is the most dreadful feeling going, never want to go there again.

I can offer some practical advice though.

1) Let the bitterness go - hard though it is, you have to avoid carrying into the next job. 

2) Go to the job centre and register immediately it happens (even if you get a pay-out), you'll get your NI paid for.  It's a humbling experience for sure - however it's also an insight into the people who depend on those places for income because they have no intention of ever getting a job.   You are assigned an officer who you report back to every two weeks - they are so blown away when you show them the jobs you have applied for, progress made - you actually make their day because you are a bright light in a sea of making-no-effort-spongers.  You have paid a ton of tax in your life - get some of it back, it's yours after all.

3) If you have a mortgage/loans - tell the lenders immediately.  For mortgages you can often go interest-only until you are back in employment.

3) Use Linkedin (owned by Microsoft) to create a profile of yourself because it's the primary source of candidates for recruiters across a range of industries.  Your Linkedin profile should match your CV and should, it possible, be achievement based because that's more compelling than the regular and really boring to read experience based approach.  There is a career summary page. Write some text about yourself - use all the acronyms and buzzwords for your skillset because recruiters (they have to pay) search the Linkedin database for skills and companies - get it right and the phone starts ringing or emails arrive. 

4) Lots of jobs are advertised on the internet.  The recruiter is only going to put 4 or 5 CVs forward for consideration by the hiring manager, so how do you get the best possible chance of being in that shortlist?   Never hit the reply button and attach your CV - instead Google the company and call - ask for the recruitment team and the person handling the assignment. brief conversation to discover if the job is still available and that you are interested, have the right skills - ask for an Email address and send your CV direct.  The recruiter is much more likely to put you forward simply because you showed initiative and are 'real'.

5) Some crafty recruiters will ask if you have applied to other companies and if so who - you need to avoid answering because you will provide them with intelligence on who is hiring and be on the phone immediately and you don't need the competition do you?  However - if they call and ask if you know anyone who has XYZ skill then go out of your way to help.  Networking is a powerful tool. 

6) There are some excellent job search engines out there, Jobsite, Monster, Reed.   Never, ever post/upload your CV to these sites - if recruiters discover your details are public for everyone to see why should they put the effort into getting you a job?  

5) Car insurance - when you are unemployed your job has changed - you MUST tell your insurance company.  As you know the default position is 'don't pay out' so don't give them an excuse.

6) Don't give up - I reckon it takes 3 months from a standing start to get a job offer.

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4 hours ago, fatchap said:

Got back from work today, wage slip was delivered by post as usual, envelope felt a bit on the thick side, Opened it up there was a nice love letter from the boss informing all staff that over the next 2 weeks there will be drastic cost cutting ie overtime and unfortunately redundancies across all departments.

Since coming back from furlough we have had hours cut, wash our own uniforms, The tea/coffee machine is now 70p used to be free BUT was promised there would be no job losses. 

The letter says that due to the different ranges in experience rather than the last in first out method they will be utilising a points system. Details to follow.

I guarantee my boss has looked into this and has something up his sleeve to avoid paying out any redundancy to anyone who dosn't make the points.

2020 is proving to be quite the year.

Been there done it, normally I've treated it as a small pay off and start another job, normally things are heading downhill before the announcement comes, I've jumped ship a few times if I'd been somewhere less than 2 years as the process isn't nice. 

Obviously I've no idea what you do and times are certainly strange at the moment,  I would expect they'll be using the Bradford scheme and trying to clear out some dead wood that every company has.

Hopefully you won't be effected.

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It’s had similar letters as still furloughed,points system etc but someone said are they really going to rid of people who have been there multiple years rather than someone who has been there less than 2 ,where costs them nothing to do so ,not sure if that’s true or not though 

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Most employers will look to ‘last in, first out’ because it’s the cheapest route - you’re binning off people who haven’t been there long and who haven’t hit the magic 2 years where the employee has to be treated fairly. However, most employers will dress up a different looking points based scheme to get to the same result else it could be seen as a form of indirect age Discrimination because last in first out will invariably effect the younger members of staff.

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8 hours ago, team tractor said:

It’s been a weird year I won’t argue.

this year I’ve been locked up, thrown out my house, bailed for 3 months , lost all my guns, wife’s left with another guy after a 3 month affair only 6 months after the wedding  ,  had 4 months awaiting results for possible testicular cancer. ( all clear ) 
I’ll  be glad when 2020 is over. 🙈🙈🙈🙈

WOW, that’s a show stopping year. I had a carbon copy of that year 8 years ago ( no testicular cancer ) as my wife got “ lonely” whilst I was deployed in Afghanistan. A mate at the time gave me a gem of advice when he said “ your divorce is going to cost a fortune, you know why don’t you?.....Because everything that’s expensive is worth it” 

Best of luck mate. Hopefully things improve👍

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5 hours ago, sam triple said:

are they really going to rid of people who have been there multiple years rather than someone who has been there less than 2 ,where costs them nothing to do so ,not sure if that’s true or not though 

Be really careful.

In some companies -usually larger ones - it's all about the 'headcount' and whether the redundancy payout is big or small, is less relevant.  The annual cost of having a bum on a seat (or on the tools, whatever) dwarfs the cost of whether a redundancy cheque is £3k or £30k.

Also, think about it: If it's a choice between someone who has been there years, but is just 'going through the motions', turns up and does the bare minimum, or someone with less than 2 years service but is motivated, and is keen to learn and improve things, which would you pick?  Even if, short-term it's going to cost you more, long term the company will make more money with the latter employee.

 

8 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

3) Use Linkedin (owned by Microsoft) to create a profile of yourself because it's the primary source of candidates for recruiters across a range of industries.  Your Linkedin profile should match your CV and should, it possible, be achievement based because that's more compelling than the regular and really boring to read experience based approach.  There is a career summary page. Write some text about yourself - use all the acronyms and buzzwords for your skillset because recruiters (they have to pay) search the Linkedin database for skills and companies - get it right and the phone starts ringing or emails arrive. 

So much this.  Even if you don't 'do' social media, Stinked-in is non-optional if you like to keep a roof over your head these days.  Have a good, professional profile picture - not the one your mates took in the pub.  And yes, it can feel cringe-worthy writing sales spiel about yourself, but man up and do it.

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1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

So much this.  Even if you don't 'do' social media, Stinked-in is non-optional if you like to keep a roof over your head these days.  Have a good, professional profile picture - not the one your mates took in the pub.  And yes, it can feel cringe-worthy writing sales spiel about yourself, but man up and do it.

Surely this is an office based thing? I get things all the time saying such a body has invited you, all get deleted,  just using the Jobs boards with my CV on them has always been enough for jobs where your hands get dirty.

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5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Surely this is an office based thing?

All of the guys in my outfit on the tools have one, as far as I'm aware.  If you're getting work without a profile, then I'm certainly not going to argue with you, however.  Frankly I detest the bloody site. 

But I'd also point out that the distinction between 'blue collar' and 'white collar' is nowhere near as clear cut as it used to be, at least not in the industries I've worked.  The ability to operate a computer is not optional, and hasn't been for at least the last 15 years, IMHO.  Reluctance to drive a spreadsheet occasionally, or sort out some of the documentation, even if you're a fitter, could well mean the difference between JSA and a pay slip.

 

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2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

All of the guys in my outfit on the tools have one, as far as I'm aware.  If you're getting work without a profile, then I'm certainly not going to argue with you, however.  Frankly I detest the bloody site. 

But I'd also point out that the distinction between 'blue collar' and 'white collar' is nowhere near as clear cut as it used to be, at least not in the industries I've worked.  The ability to operate a computer is not optional, and hasn't been for at least the last 15 years, IMHO.  Reluctance to drive a spreadsheet occasionally, or sort out some of the documentation, even if you're a fitter, could well mean the difference between JSA and a pay slip.

 

I'm quite glad computer work is very minimal for me, but if you wanted to progress then it's all computer based.

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